Rant alert! How do those who want Lockdown to continue justify the suffering of everyone else?

[Thefrenchbaguette]

My 3 month old has been waiting for a hip scan to confirm her rather obvious DDH. She needs a harness, the GP already confirmed she will need one and put in an urgent referral at her 6 week review and still nothing because they're not doing them at all here! You can only use a harness up until 6 months and after that the treatment for DDH is an operation! My baby is going to have to have a completely unavoidable operation or suffer lifelong damage to her hips because the NHS is just not interested in anyone who doesn't have Covid19! There isn't even the option to pay for it to be done privately! I am furious and so sick of seeing countless threads and comments about how lockdown needs to be continued and even stricter! All very well with your comfortable house and perfectly secure income and no real risk to your overall well-being but what about everyone else who is suffering?!
A friend had an abnormal smear come back in January but the follow up has been indefinitely postponed! How many people are going to miss life saving diagnosis', life saving treatments! It's disgusting and I feel so unbelievably angry at what this country has come through so 90% of people can avoid getting what is essentially a bad cold!

I lost my beloved Dad late last year. He was so ill and frail and elderly at the end that a stiff breeze would have taken him. I think when people are at the end of their life there's nothing to be done. If Dad had died with cv I couldn't really have said it was that that had killed him rather than he had simply reached the end of his life.

I'd like to know what the figures are for people who were dying anyway. They're probably there but I'm so confused about the figures now.

Yes, I agree, people will die from not getting cancer screenings, but the numbers are lower than those dying of covid.' at the moment. But lack of screening does not mean you will die of cancer this week or even next month- those deaths are going to take place over the next year.

Individual not indivisible

Even people who haven't tested positive have been included - people with "suspected" covid but a negative or not test.

Read that on Facebook, did you?

OP, I don’t care about your daughter needing an operation more than I care about my children dying. I have a 30yr old and a 24 with underlying conditions that will live a long life, unless they catch COVID19. The chances are that they could die from it. You’re effectively telling me and other parents like me, that you don’t care if our chosen die, so long as your child gets treatment for something that she won’t die from. Thanks for that.

The point is that, at some point, the NHS has to be able to cope with Covid AND other treatment. If we don't get a vaccine we'll have to cope with Covid for months if not years.

Even if you currently think it's 'what amounts to a bad cold' @Thefrenchbaguette, there's a chance you or your family may need hospital treatment with this as the months or years go on. People end up in hospital with pneumonia brought on by chest infections or flu so the odds are any one of us on here will end up in hospital with the complications from Covid at some point.

So the government and the NHS have to find a way of treating Covid, the complications and carry on treating 'normal' illnesses and diseases.

Having said that I think you do need to bring up your DC issue with your MP and, as @HoneysuckIejasmine said, this seems to be a regional thing. My sister, having had a breast cancer scare a few years ago (which thankfully came to nothing), found another lump two weeks ago. She did a telephone consultation with our GP, got an immediate referral to the hospital. She went to the hospital last week for her appointment, had a scan and blood tests. She had a phone call this week to say the scan showed a benign cyst and bloods were normal. So urgent referrals are happening here. I don't know what's happening to routine appointments though.

Covid has thrown everything on its head but we need to get to a new normal asap because we could be living with this for many years, possibly in waves, and cancer/heart conditions/lung or kidney and all the other problems don't go away just because Covid is here. The NHS has to find a way through and we also have to learn a new way of getting these things done - whether it's different types of appointments to allow social distancing, wearing masks in hospitals or GP practices or different places dealing with routine things that hospitals used to deal with.

Yes, I agree, people will die from not getting cancer screenings, but the numbers are lower than those dying of covid.

Over 118k people died in the UK from cancer last year. But hey, at least it wasn't covid .

@CHIRIBAYA

"That is a horrible statement. It’s not an either or. And elderly people’s lives do matter"

But it IS an either or and that's a fact not a horrible statement; you clearly don't have any idea of the crisis with CAMHS? 18 months to wait to get into 'service' (while dealing with suicide attempts) then a further YEAR to wait for any interventions. I was told by a psychiatrist that she could have helped my daughter if she had the funding. Meanwhile, friend of FIL texting me to tell me his 90 year old mother (in a care home) is recovering well from her hip op. 10K a hip op on the NHS. No, it should most definitely NOT be an either or but children in this country count for nothing, absolutely diddly squat. Childrens lives simply do not matter. So yes, some of us mothers are very angry and if we do not speak up for our children who else is going to? Blame the right pepople? We are all part of the system.

This is divisive. It is also not the facts. It is pretty horrible to say older people are worth less, or the ethnic minorities dying more or covid19 are worth less, of the men with diabetes are worth less. And many older people have died alone in their care homes with no palliative or hospital care from covid19 without taking any services or funding. I feel terrible about that.

Be vocal about wanting more funding for services. But it’s pretty horrible to say that other people dying of covid19 are taking it from you.

We don’t know what % of people with covid-19 are asymptomatic, we don’t know what % have a very mild version that they may barely notice, we don’t know what % of people get a version they need to be hospitalised let alone in ICU, and we don’t know what % of people die.

So this argument (both sides!) is moot.

OP has every right to be angry about her daughter.

Lockdown hasn’t caused the delay to medical treatment, covid has. Without lockdown, hospitals would have been (and would still be) overwhelmed and you still wouldn’t be getting treatment for your baby. Issues with medical treatment are not caused by lockdown.

A bad cold? Whilst I'm sorry about your daughter you can fuck off with that comment
This.

I’m pleased for you OP that no one in your life has died from this “bad cold”.

what is essentially a bad cold!

It's not a straight dichotomy between 'so ill that you require ICU' or 'so mild, it might as well be called a cold or you don't even notice it'. There are plenty of people who were nursed at home, with a close eye on breathing symptoms.

My DD, very fit in 20s, had it early on and it was worse than the worst flu plus the exhaustion and pain from the relentless coughing. Took ages to get over and has left her with intermittent flare ups of feeling ill and strained breathing, that she has been told by the specialist GP is something they are seeing in recovering patients with no other conditions. She now has an inhaler on standby to use.

I'm sorry that you are so stressed about your baby, OP, and do hope that she is attended to soon but don't be so dismissive of this illness.

I don't think your dd's treatment should be delayed OP. I agree with you there.

Not getting the link to lockdown.

'You’re effectively telling me and other parents like me, that you don’t care if our chosen die, so long as your child gets treatment for something that she won’t die from. Thanks for that.'

No, she isn't. [sigh]
What on earth is this assumption that if this child (and others like her) gets her important orthopaedics appointment, under appropriate hygiene conditions and precautions, the virus will run riot and completely unconnected people will die?

Are you trying to make a mother feel guilty about wanting to spare her child surgery (which, let's face it, always carries a risk of complications requiring ICU treatment) and/or a lifetime of complications? Shame on you.

I've read a lot of nonsense on here since all this started and generally kept out of it, but this is making me very angry.

Do you realise if the NHS has continued to threat people as usual, COVID19 could have rampaged through the hospitals and killed many of the people being treated for other illnesses

Not to mention the risk to doctors, nurses and other HCPs. We've lost enough HCPs as it is, they can't be replaced overnight. There's no point in seeing a surgeon if they die before they've carried out your surgery.

My auntie who is currently on a ventilator probably wouldn’t refer to herself as having a bad cold. She would probably refer to you as something though.

You have massively misjudged where the issue is, it isn’t the people that are being cautious and not wanting to rush back into normal life as there is a chance this will be incredibly damaging to the NHS and as a result delay stuff further. I doubt anybody has personally thought oh I hope this drags on so people don’t get the care they need, the fact that’s what comes to your mind says a lot more about you.

The issue is the underfunded and understaffed health service.

@ThighThighofthigh

Not sure if this is the sort of info you are after, probably not quite but it might be of interest

www.theactuary.com/features/2020/05/07/co-morbidity-question

@cardibach

Lockdown hasn’t caused the delay to medical treatment, covid has. Without lockdown, hospitals would have been (and would still be) overwhelmed and you still wouldn’t be getting treatment for your baby. Issues with medical treatment are not caused by lockdown.

100% agree. Please people let us never be so low as to hold up our children and say older people dying are taking their services. It’s so divisive and incentive, and just untrue.

Lockdown earlier would have given more space in the system for cancer services. And preparation with PPE sooner in hospitals and testing of healthcare staff would also have. Other countries such as Australia, New Zealand, South Korea have all kept their health services operating more than we have.

I know that when we peaked (before transmission rates were brought down by lockdown) we had twice as many deaths as we would normally at this time of year. That isn't just 'old people who were on the way out anyway'.

I agree that the situation is really harsh. Lots of people are suffering and I don't envy the people in power who have to make the decision as to what to do to balance that awful suffering, but I think it's absolute bullshit to say 'it's a bad cold'.

'Without lockdown, hospitals would have been (and would still be) overwhelmed and you still wouldn’t be getting treatment for your baby. Issues with medical treatment are not caused by lockdown.'

This isn't about 'lockdown' (shops shut, people told to stay at home etc.), though. OP has used it as shorthand for the blanket cancellation of health services of any and all kinds that seems to be happening. A more thought-through and targeted reprioritisation of services, plus the strong message to all providers that urgent and/or time-critical issues (especially in children) must continue to be seen, would have avoided this happening while still not allowing the virus to overwhelm the NHS. As it is, the response seems to have had something of the headless chicken about it.

To be fair @CatteStreet, it was the OP who set up the false opposition of people trying to control the virus being against her daughter getting treatment. The false association with attitudes to lockdown. The thread was doomed form its illogical beginnings.

@penguinsbegin I have no problem with asking questions about why clinics are not open. I do have a problem with people assuming that it is lockdown and people dying that are to blame.

I think people who believe lockdown should continue are talking about non essential services like shops. A lot of things seemed to have happened in a rush.

I personally would like to see more focus from the government on getting the NHS back to normal service for procedures such as your child's and friend's. I do think though that school returns have been too quick and ill thought out.

"Speaking up for your daughter does not make you selfish."

Yes it does. Because her daughter is not the only individual in the world sho wants a life. There are other people and indeed other children. So she is being incredibly selfish. Also incredibly stupid and hurtful saying everyone else is old and should die anyway. What about all the mothers and fathers to young children, should they just die too?

I don't think most people want lockdown to continue. They want the government to put effective measures in place to contain the virus so it can be managed without the need for lockdown. Unfortunately they haven't managed to get the numbers low enough where testing and tracing would actually work well even if the testing and tracing systems were up to scratch.