AIBU - 'Karen' is about class, why are people so class-blind?

[Beancounter1]

AIBU to hate the way people confuse racism and sexism with class prejudice? To my mind, the use of the insult 'Karen', especially popular in the USA, doesn't just mean a middle-aged white woman who is arrogant, self-righteous, self absorbed, complaining, trouble-making, full-of-herself, etc. etc.
It means a middle or upper class woman with these characteristics. You won't see a working class 'Karen'. The stereotypical 'Karen' behaves as she does because she is on a power trip. Her social class advantage has gone to her head. That is why she complains in restaurants and is rude to shop assistants.
Why are people so blind to class prejudice? Why is the world so often seen only through the lens of race or sex? Is it because the powers-that-be (the 'elite') have a vested interest in deflecting and forestalling any class-based collective action or class consciousness? We are not encouraged to talk or think about class, but it is as significant as ever.

phoebesphalange - sorry, I wasn't trolling. Just over-generalising.

MorrisZapp put it much better than I can. It is my name and I find the memes and the sexist, women blaming comments made on this thread offensive.

To me it’s the female equivalent of an average Joe - nothing about class at all

Scarletoharaseyebrows - what I'm trying to get at is that the class element of intersectionality is often overlooked or not specifically identified.
Maybe the point doesn't translate well to the US. Maybe now is not the time.

It's a rubbish, lazy insult hurled at any woman who doesn't agree with you now. I thought it's origin was on a par with: 'I want to see the manager' - a bit self important.

I don’t think class equates to racism or sexism though. It’s subjective for one.
Some gangland boss may be working class but pretty influential and someone you’d identify as upper class through could have little status or wealth.

*Classism is actually more insidious than racism.

Otherwise you wouldn’t have black kids from private schools who sail through life in the UK while white kids from deprived areas will fall at the first hurdle - namely opening their mouths to speak!*

Really disagree with this. So many examples- see for eg experiences of musa okwonga who went to eton eg twitter.com/okwonga/status/1268571160012378112?s=21

And all the black professional figures in public life who regardless of background are very frequently ridiculed and held as stupid in a way that does not happen on similar scale to white ppl

I’m just wondering how many of the people posting here would feel if it was their name that was used constantly in a derogatory manner?

If they had memes sent to them by random strangers (mostly men) on a daily basis calling them “fat slags” or stuff that says “all insert your name must be killed”

There was a news paper article about something I did a few months ago (nothing bad - just a silly “feel good” local news story) and based on this I had people (men) track down my social media accounts and send me really nasty Karen memes (“shut-up and suck my dick, Karen” etc)

It’s not oppression, but it is bullying. I don’t understand why people are okay with this.

Karen isn't upper class. She's the GP receptionist who demands your medical history before making you an appointment. She's the woman on the PTA who decides whether you front the cake stall or lick 500 envelopes. She's the woman in returns who insists that your trousers have worn out after 2 wears because you're too fat, not because the fabric is shite. She's the parent who very publicly invited 25 out of the 29 classmates of her PFB to his 6th birthday party.

If ppl get upset by Karen then they need to get a grip and live their lives in the real world and not on social media

(By that I mean if they get upset being called a Karen)

@pippitypoppitypoo

If ppl get upset by Karen then they need to get a grip and live their lives in the real world and not on social media

Well, there is that. Nobody in my real life has mentioned the meme or used my name as an insult. Its mostly an online thing. Complete with pictures of terrible hairstyles.

peachgreen - the insult is definitely punching up if you look at class and race, but as a sexist or ageist insult it is less clear cut. Anti-sexism is a cause worth fighting.

Maybe part of the reason that the meme is gaining traction is that people are realising women with a certain level of privilege no longer have a strong claim to being 'downtrodden' just because they are women. It is a result of the growing visibility of outwardly powerful women, especially in tough economic times.

MorrisZapp - you are spot on. It is self-evidently utterly sexist, it is female name weaponised!

Because race and sex are predetermined. You can change your class, so it isn't a protected characteristic?

I don't think it's appropriate for men to use the term but given it was originated by Black women I can't see it as inherently offensive (despite being white, in my late 30s, middle class and a bit mouthy at times, ripe for a Karening if I ever end up behaving like a dick!).

Suggest you read about Emmett Till if you want to understand the particular history in the US over instances of white women using their power to enable white men to do harm to black people. And why a lot of the Karen stuff resonates

'Otherwise you wouldn't have black kids from private schools who sail through life in the UK...'

Did a black kid/adult actually tell you that they've sailed through life???

When I was a child back in the 60s, Karen was not an unusual name. I guess now few younger parents choose this name, so it belongs to an older demographic group.

My grandmother was born in 1898 and was called Alicia. I wanted to name my daughter after her in 1990 and my husband wouldn't hear of it. The name is now much more popular and she would love to have been called Alicia. All names come and go in popularity.

Morris Zapp succinct and spot on

gutentag1 - I take your point (but - whispering - don't tell the trans people that you can't change your sex). I would insert smiley here if I knew how.

It really is not that easy to change your class, it isn't just a matter of getting more money and moving to a nicer area. As soon as you speak, or sit down to eat a meal, or refer to a napkin as a serviette, or say 'pardon?' instead of 'what?' (or vice versa), you betray your origins to those who are watching. At least this is the case in the UK.

UK Karen's are not the same as American Karen's. Don't get too hung up on the actual name. It's the negative personality traits, such as self-entitlement, narcissism, lack of empathy, victim hood (ability to lie and cry at the drop of a hat), etc...
We all know of a Karen or two.

None of the Karens I know are middle or upper class. It was a pretty common name round our way in the 80s when I lived on a council housing estate.

Chad is not equivalent to Karen.
Its mostly used in incel circles for young good looking guys with chins and social skills that women actually like.
I agree with op, Karen is classist sexist and ageist and doesnt translate all that well over here.

I hate it. I saw a woman say on a company Facebook page that money had been taken out of her account weeks ago but she hadn't received the product. She then was put down by a man and called a Karen. How dare a woman speak up!
Only know working class Karens

I thought this was going to be about working class or benefit people!! Karen isnt an upper class name!