AIBU - 'Karen' is about class, why are people so class-blind?

[Beancounter1]

AIBU to hate the way people confuse racism and sexism with class prejudice? To my mind, the use of the insult 'Karen', especially popular in the USA, doesn't just mean a middle-aged white woman who is arrogant, self-righteous, self absorbed, complaining, trouble-making, full-of-herself, etc. etc.
It means a middle or upper class woman with these characteristics. You won't see a working class 'Karen'. The stereotypical 'Karen' behaves as she does because she is on a power trip. Her social class advantage has gone to her head. That is why she complains in restaurants and is rude to shop assistants.
Why are people so blind to class prejudice? Why is the world so often seen only through the lens of race or sex? Is it because the powers-that-be (the 'elite') have a vested interest in deflecting and forestalling any class-based collective action or class consciousness? We are not encouraged to talk or think about class, but it is as significant as ever.

And thank god my parents didn't name me jodie danielle or gemma.
The class system is very much alive and well in this country.

Everyone who goes to Eton gets the piss ripped back or white.
They might get all the good jobs but everybody knows they don’t actually deserve them.
Thank goodness they don’t let girls in.

Class is about education and your socioeconomic status. Which in turn has an effect on your life experiences, your vocabulary and how you conduct yourself. It allows you more life options.
One can change their class.

I know a few Karen's and they are middle class.

I have a theory about 'Karens'. My name isn't Karen, but I’m very much of that generation (born late 60s). My class at primary school had three Karens in it. For the record, it was a predominantly working class junior school; my secondary school was much more middle class and there were only two Karens in my whole year group (at an all girls' school). I was at university from 1986-90, slap bang in the middle of the Dynasty, shoulder pads, 'women can have it all' years. Feminism was a driving force on campus. Women's Studies was a hugely popular degree subject.

The buzzword of the day was 'assertiveness'. Women's groups and, I think, recruitment firms and other businesses offered 'Assertiveness training' for women as a regular thing. The (admirable) goal of this was to teach women how to stick up for themselves in the workplace, negotiate better salaries or promotions, and not allow themselves to be bullied by male colleagues once they'd achieved this.

Unfortunately the reality for many women's lives, especially working class women, was very different. Most women did not have boardroom positions. They were (and still are) in low-paid employment where negotiating a salary was a pipe dream and standing up to your boss would get you fired. Others were unemployed or SAHM.

Yet all of us heard this doctrine of 'assertiveness' over and over and over again until we internalised it, to the point where you weren't 'doing feminism (or even womanhood) properly' if you weren't AssertiveTM. Maybe some misunderstood the message and thought that the point of it was just 'Never take no for an answer'. But certainly with nowhere for this assertiveness to go in the workplace - where it was very much a 'punching up' idea - many women who were in low-power positions or found themselves stuck frustrated in the home, took to using it to punch down instead.

I’m convinced that this is the explanation behind it being women of a certain age (and possibly class) who developed a reputation for demanding to speak to the manager or mistreating customer service employees whose position in society they perceived as lower than theirs.

I don't see it as a class issue, because people of all classes are able to exhibit the sort of entitled attitude that denotes a "Karen". "Karens" are opinionated, belligerent, full of their own sense of self-importance and not afraid to shout about it.

Class isn't a factor.

I'd not heard of 'a Karen' before, until I read it on an 'every life matters' post today and this. I know a woman called Karen and she's so quiet and very inspirational. I hope it doesn't catch on in the UK.

Leave you to the chat about Karen and class. I've no idea!

I get class prejudice, it does exist. However I do not get the use of the name 'Karen' in conjunction with it. It was a very popular name here in the UK at one time and I've known a few but never an upper class or upper middle class woman called 'Karen', it was more the preserve of the lower mid and upper working classes. Therefore it means nothing to me and I too hope it doesn't catch on here.

Whatever name is used it isn't fair on anyone who was given that as a baby, we aren't responsible for what our parents call us.

@thenamesarealltaken It already has caught on here, for the YouTube watching youngsters anyway! My DS11 has seen ALL the Karen memes 🙄 and will call me 'a Karen' at the drop of a hat if we're out and something happens which ends up with me complaining or getting annoyed for any reason!

Karens" are opinionated, belligerent, full of their own sense of self-importance and not afraid to shout about it
The problem is it gets used by men as a putdown when a woman speaks up for herself at all. As mentioned i saw it used against someone who posted on a company Facebook page that money had been taken out of her account weeks ago and she'd not received an item.

It's already caught on in the UK

Bullying others because you think they are beneath you obviously isn't a good way to behave, but IMO the 'Karen' thing goes beyond that and into - yet again - silencing women. It's just another censorious, sexist means of putting us back in our boxes. (That she even has a haircut is news to me; I mean, really. WT ever-loving F?)

If daring to be forthright, asserting your rights, refusal to accept substandard treatment etc. brings forth a 'Karen' parrot-cry, then that might go some way toward silencing that little problem. You know, the problem of women actually speaking. (And from a UK perspective the British are already notorious for not being assertive enough, and putting up with crap service/treatment that no one would tolerate on the continent).

No one likes the idea of being accused of rudeness as it simply isn't done for women to behave in such a way. You must not be rude. You must be polite. You must be nice. You must be unselfish. You must grit your teeth and bear it. Every woman recognises that form of social conditioning because it's been drummed into us since birth.

I would rather BE Karen than capitulate to that kind of sexist BS.

The only time I have seen Karen used is on here and sometimes in reference to Facebook and thought it was a bit off if you happened to be called Karen as it was never talked about in a good way.

The "Karen" meme is used by hospitality workers to describe guests who think they're very much above those serving them- difficult to please and full of attitude. They always want to talk to the manager. Likely to say phrases such as, "i pay your wages"

That doesn't sound like any 'Karen' I've known, Yerawizardharry. Karen is a name up there with the Joannes and Samanthas, nothing in the least 'up' about it. Maybe it is considered 'posh' in America, who knows. They were the first to come up with 'Tracy' after all.

@Lynda07 the name is interchangeable with Sharon/Susan/Linda, women in their mid 40s/early 50s. I'm in Scotland.

Not sure I'd consider them posh- I'm sure they would like to think they are but actually have zero class.

It's kind of hard to understand what you are asking, but personally I think these days money is a bigger issue than class. In the past class = money, but I don't think this is true these days. Maybe, some people do look down their noses at people on TOWIE or WAGS as being low class. I know on MN, there are a lot of sneering posts about Mrs Hinch with her silver and grey house. Is this classism? I guess so. But, I don't really feel that anyone holds the upper classes in any kid of esteem these days either.

I would say very late 40's mostly 50's- I'm 41 and don't know anybody my age or recall anyone from my year group being named Karen, Sharon, Susan or Linda it was more Emma, Zoe, Laura and Becky

UK Karen's are not the same as American Karen's. Don't get too hung up on the actual name. It's the negative personality traits, such as self-entitlement, narcissism, lack of empathy, victim hood (ability to lie and cry at the drop of a hat), etc...
We all know of a Karen or two.

This!

Brits are seeing Karen through their cultural lens when it is a North American term. In the States it is a white woman (class doesn’t matter) complaining belligerently about something or someone unnecessarily who they see as beneath them usually a minority. It’s in the same circle as Becky, Patty, and Susan. As another poster said, this also relates to the American history of white women using their privilege against black people (especially black men). No matter what class a white woman was she could lie and say a black person did something and that person would be beaten or worse murdered. Heck, riots have been started over rumours of white women being raped by a black man causing the destruction of black areas, leaving many black people homeless and innocent black people dead in the US. The Rosewood massacre immediately comes to mind and other race riots as well because the virtue of white women matters more than the lives of black people. Even black children and teenagers were not exempt. This is still an issue today with women purposely calling police telling them a black person is attacking them knowing they are more likely to be believed over a black person, difference is black people are able to record it and witnesses are more willing to call them out knowing the possible consequences of these women’s actions.

I grew up in a very posh rural town & Karen is definitely not a middle class name. If I heard that name my instant thought would be working class.

Having worked in retail for more years than I care to remember, "Karen" can be everyone

Those people who have left it too late to buy what they wanted and think I can pull it out of my arse on Christmas Eve. Wanting to come in at 4.10 when we are closed on a Sunday, coming in at 5.58 and then staying for half an hour with the words "oh I didn't realise you were closing" Really the lights going dim didn't give you a god damn clue along with me saying we are closing.

Complaing because my staff asked if you wanted a TPC, complaining because they didn't.

To me and I would imagine most in retail its not about class, money or anything else, its the fact that shop staff get treated like shit by alot of people and tbh nothing is ever going to change

If it’s about people putting others down then no thanks but the whole thing feels misogynistic to me. God forbid a woman should complain!

@MarieIVanArkleStinks - the haircut came before the name, at least it did in the UK!
The "speak to the manager" haircut was meme-ing well before Karen came into it.

@AlpineSnow

Karens" are opinionated, belligerent, full of their own sense of self-importance and not afraid to shout about it The problem is it gets used by men as a putdown when a woman speaks up for herself at all. As mentioned i saw it used against someone who posted on a company Facebook page that money had been taken out of her account weeks ago and she'd not received an item.

Yes, well there are always new ways that they come up with to try and put women "back in their place" - I haven't personally seen Karen used in that way but I'm sure it is being done! Centuries of effort by men (and often other women too) to shut women up - calling us "shrews", "nags", "blue stockings" (for when we become too educated); and now Karen has joined that list.

But originally it was only used for a specific type of woman who, if anything, was exhibiting more stereotypically male-type bullying behaviours, in my experience at least.

Karen was originally started as a Reddit post by a guy who was bitching about his ex-wife. It was called Fuck you Karen. Someone then started a meme thread about his posts as a joke.

A typical Karen is a soccer mom type who doesn't take any bullshit. She is quick to complain at restaurants or stores. She'll call the school whenever she has a problem. Kate Gosselin was seen to represent the typical Karen, hence her look and hairstyle are often used in Karen memes.

I can see that many people see Karens as complete PITAs, but it definitely is all rooted in misogyny. The idea of a woman who stands up for herself (perhaps too much) as did the original Karen who obviously left her ex-husband bitter and angry about the divorce.

In the US, Karen is usually an anti-vaxxer