AIBU - 'Karen' is about class, why are people so class-blind?

[Beancounter1]

AIBU to hate the way people confuse racism and sexism with class prejudice? To my mind, the use of the insult 'Karen', especially popular in the USA, doesn't just mean a middle-aged white woman who is arrogant, self-righteous, self absorbed, complaining, trouble-making, full-of-herself, etc. etc.
It means a middle or upper class woman with these characteristics. You won't see a working class 'Karen'. The stereotypical 'Karen' behaves as she does because she is on a power trip. Her social class advantage has gone to her head. That is why she complains in restaurants and is rude to shop assistants.
Why are people so blind to class prejudice? Why is the world so often seen only through the lens of race or sex? Is it because the powers-that-be (the 'elite') have a vested interest in deflecting and forestalling any class-based collective action or class consciousness? We are not encouraged to talk or think about class, but it is as significant as ever.

, not [mad]

I find it awful that it's thrown around on Mumsnet, and HQ just allows it. I reported a horrible post using it and Mumsnet not only left it up but didn't even respond.

The moderation on here leaves alot to be desired. They are very quick to delete posts they don't agree with but apparently not a misogynistic slur .

For the record, I hate the Karen meme, not just because it's my name but because it puts down women. What's the male equivalent?

That said, the Central Park Karen was a high powered executive, while there are other Karens who are decidedly working class. (Not that we'd call them that in the US.)

But the original name was based on a person who I sketched above, who has limited actual social or political power but who feels the need to exercise her privilege whenever possible. (Hence the 'speak to the manager' or 'rude to the waitress' vibe.)

It is not about female empowerment--it is about entitlement and privilege and not recognizing that, say, petty complaints over things that don't matter could get someone fired.

Actually, I'd say it was a name for a person who understands what their class and racial privileges allows them but who doesn't care about the consequences of wielding that power.

There are male equivalents, fwiw. I've known both Chad and Bret to be used with serious frequency. That's not to say that there isn't a current of genderof course there isbut it's much more about class and race privilege than about sexism.

InstantGuilt - LOL!

(How do I insert a smiley?)

The original Karen meme is American and describes an unreasonable customer, probably a mum with a practical haircut, who makes the life of young, often black people in minimum wage jobs intolerable. It definitely has connotations of calling out racism.

It has mutated in this country to imply that an ignorant and poorly educated woman (generally a mum, probably middle aged, probably lower middle class or working class) has acted in an ignorant or entitled way. It undoubtedly is used in a sexist and ageist way to imply that some women are getting above themselves and expressing opinions they are not entitled to. I call it out when it's used in the second way.

However, the sister of Christian Cooper, the African-American who was threatened by a white woman when he was birdwatching in central park, used the term Karen to describe the woman's behaviour. I wouldn't call that out because I can see exactly why she used it. Middle aged women clearly do not have a monopoly on racist behaviour, as demonstrated by the terrible and distressing murder of George Floyd and innumerable other similar incidents. But I suspect "Karen" refers to a particular kind of passive - aggressive racism which may be more common in women. It's worth noting that in Cooper's case the woman was called Amy, which is a younger demographic than Karen.

It is interesting there is no shorthand for an unreasonable and racist complaining white middle aged man.

The USA has very little historical class system, at least compared to the UK. I have heard it said that their only class system is money, but I don't think that can be entirely true.

Certainly not true on the East Coast

Well, you can google a Chevy Tahoe. Wall decals are those words that you print out and affix to your walls (e.g Live Laugh Love). Cancun is probably equivalent to an all-inclusive package holiday in a tourist resort in Spain or Greece. The bumper stickers are little decals you put on your car that say things like "My kid is an Honors Student at Monroe Elementary"; the car decals have little stick figure outlines of each of the people in the family (picture attached).

What's the male equivalent?

I’ve heard people say it’s a Chad. I have never known anyone called Chad or met one. It feels like a very American name. I have also never seen a Chad meme.

I didn't think it was a class thing. Just someone who is stupid and gets all the information from unreliable sources and then spreads the misinformation....

I was going to write more, but I think this article might be more useful:

www.vox.com/2020/2/5/21079162/karen-name-insult-meme-manager

(It's actually a really good article and not only explains the history but also talks about sexism.)

Actually, I'd say it was a name for a person who understands what their class and racial privileges allows them but who doesn't care about the consequences of wielding that power

Do you think it’s fair to use a woman’s name to describe this type of person? Why can’t you use something generic (asshole, twat - the possibilities are endless!) that isn’t so deeply personal to so many women who just happen to be born with that name?

@MagicKingdomDizzy
Mumsnet are quite random in what they delete or find acceptable / inappropriate.
I suppose it depends on who’s on duty / awake at the time.

There are plenty of memes depicting men as unreasonable or ill-informed or stupid or unnecessarily angry. Loads of them. They use screenshots of characters from The Office or GoT etc to make their point. They just don’t assign a generic name to them.

There are literally thousands of memes. I would say the male/female split is fairly even between them. All memes are making a snarky point, that’s what they are for.

So, the what’s the male equivalent war cry doesn’t wash with me.

It’s surely lower mc if anything, or perhaps wc made good.

To me it also is not aimed at tertiary educated women. (Don’t get me wrong, I am not equating education with class, far from it .. the whole Karen idea is repugnant to me as a misogynistic stereotype . But that’s my interpretation of what people who believe in “Karens” mean).

So not only has the meaning of the term been lost in translation from the US to UK, but we have a disagreement over whether the primary force of the insult is racist, sexist or classist.

The UK definitely does not have the same type of open race-war as the US. We have different expressions of racism here, and I think the actual % of BAME in the population is lower and it intersects differently with UK class, so racism works differently (not saying it is not as bad). So the racism in the insult is not as apparent.

My point is that we need to be as aware and open about classism as we are about other 'isms'.

I think of it as an upper working class busy body thickie name/insult

This is Karen. I work with a Karen who has hair like this. Karen gets shit done!

Beancounter1 has the US Karen come from Will & Grace?

I don't think it is a class thing.It is mysogynistic and ageist though. It seems designed to put down any older women who don't know their place. It is also aimed at the MIL generation.

Classism is actually more insidious than racism.

Otherwise you wouldn’t have black kids from private schools who sail through life in the UK while white kids from deprived areas will fall at the first hurdle - namely opening their mouths to speak!

Sonotech - I really don't know the origin. It is possible that is an influence. Although I thought most people loved that character.

I can't stand the Karen meme, but I live in the US and you can't map UK definitions of class onto US society. @Nancydrawn gives a great description of how the Karen stereotype maps based on US culture. Karen is a meme that can translate to the UK, but it's a cultural export of US origin and you kind of have to give a nod to that.

Karen has class elements, but it's a stereotype that is about white entitlement and ignorance which preys on the inherent ageism and sexism in society to create a trope.

@bee222

What's the male equivalent?

I’ve heard people say it’s a Chad. I have never known anyone called Chad or met one. It feels like a very American name. I have also never seen a Chad meme.

Have you never seen Scumbag Steve

We definitely have a huge racism issue in the UK but I can't see a correlation with Karen.