To think I might not have many friends soon?

[PikeletvsCrumpet]

I work full time and my dd is in reception. I've only ever been able to do three school pick ups. DD doesn't mind. My only worry is that I'm the only full time working mum in my dd's class and I feel so lonely.
Actually I don't feel lonely. I get to go to work and speak to people all day. What I feel is left out and so, as a result, my dd is also left out. I've tried to ignore it but the amount of school stuff that happens after pick up, after drop off, at 5pm when I'm collecting ds from nursery and dd from school and trying not to get chips (again!) on the way home.
Since Covid started I have felt particularly left out as I'm a key worker and the other parents have been sending constant images of days in the garden, extensive home school projects etc whilst I've been trying to convince my dd that it's completely normal to have school in a new class room with only three other kids that she's never met before and a different teacher. Now the other kids are allowed back I feel nothing has changed, my dd is still the only kid back and there doesn't seem to be any consideration for our situation on the group chats when they're discussing their plans to stay home till September.
Will it affect my dd and her socialising? I've messaged a few mums about meeting up but as soon as I say 'how about after 5pm or Saturday or Sunday?' they stop replying. Or the ever so helpful 'you can't take a day off?' No I can't take annual leave to meet you in a park next week. I'm going to need all my A/L to cover the summer holidays!
I know I'm not the first mum in the world who works, so maybe I picked the wrong school? Does anyone else feel like this?

My friends who I made during pregnancy are also dropping off, fed up that I don't reply or can't see them in the week. Tbh I get fed up that no one wants to meet me at weekends, which is dedicated husband time apparently. Just worried that everyone will drift and I'll have no one to talk to.

This does happen to a lot of mums as the kids go through school. If it's your youngest most mums return to work and the social dynamics change, I had a really lovely group of mum mates with my second child from when she was about 2 till 6- then one moved away (this happens a lot with primary ages kids as well) half of us went back to work, one changed schools, that meant the couple still doing school runs everyday started to form other friendships, I did have a couple of years I found this really hard but I think the 'group' was very important for a set time and naturally wasn't needed so much.
I now have a number of friends that are mums and friends that are nothing to do with kids or school but not all in the same group and I don't seem them all all the time and their kids aren't close friends with mine and that includes a couple from the original group

@Hugeackmanswife I have thought about asking but it's a big ask isn't it? I offered to do a swap and no one got back to me. I think sometimes they're wary to get to know me as they think I might try to use them as childcare!

Honestly, PP, in the nicest possible way, your friendships are irrelevant here, surely? You say you have friends from other sources, anyway. Yes, your child is possibly missing out on some after-school play dates— DS certainly did, as I seldom picked him up, and was one of only two working mothers out of 27, which I thought was staggering — but it’s not the end of the world, any more than it is that you’re missing out on morning coffees after the school run.

Your schedules just don’t match. She’ll make her own friends in time.

I was aFT working mum when most school mums were working PT or not at all.

I made quite a number of very good friends. This really came from my kids who befriended other kids leading to their parents asking for my contact and inviting my kids to theirs. Then during holidays, I would invite theirs.

Then there was the time of activities which my kids wanted to do too so I suggested picking the children and dropping them off if they could take my kids. That usually suited them very well.

Then during summer holidays, we swapped days, which saves childcare costs for those working PT.

Later the adult friendships developed and the going out/getting together on Friday evenings started.

All this developed over time but I never felt excluded for working ft, just more tired.

My son starts school in September and I have this worry, too. I'm already left out of the nursery group chat and by the other mums in the street.

I don't really care if I miss out, but I hate that my son is because I work full time!

Op there is an app called Peanut I've heard about it's social media for people to meet similar in local areas. Not dating! But you could forge friendships with other mums.

However to be honest it sounds like you haven't really time in the week and you've a focused career that takes up your time, plenty of children across the country have parents that work full time and are in wrap around care. Weekends can be precious for families and often they have kids clubs or activities to take them to as well as seeing their own family, friends etc.

She will make her own friends so maybe concentrate less on the mum friends for now, from what I see on here sometimes it's more trouble than it's worth. Like someone said more of these mums may end up working as she gets older and the dynamic will change. What about other places at weekends you can take her like sports clubs, dancing etc where you can meet the other parents and she can make friends too?

Everyone has a different opinion on school right now, you are doing your best for your child by providing for her. Ignore the subtle digs and helpful unpaid leave suggestions. ( I work in the NHS and no one has taken u paid leave on my ward )

I understand how this would get to you OP. Those examples on things said in WhatsApp would grind my gears.

My best friend was an A&E nurse when her children were young. She said she never fit it at Primary School. She joined the PTA once, but went to help at fete one day and got really angry at a silly complaint at the squash stall (she'd just had a VERY tough shift!). Never again. Roll on 20 years, my friend has a creative freelance career (where I met her) loads of friends, loads of stories. She's great fun to be around. Importantly her dcs are grown adults with great jobs and great lives.

I'm a freelancer who works from home. While this allowed me to pick up from school and go to the odd school event, at my school the Primary mums all met up and went drinking in the evenings and weekends. Evenings and weekends were often work days for me. The total lack of comprehension when I said I was working all evening was a sight to see.

My dcs are teens now. I'm barely in contact with any Primary Mums. With the time I gained I decided to apply to be a School Governor and I've found very like minded parents/people through the Secondary School.

I feel it's a very privileged position this "I'm not risking school until September" line. I honestly feel like some parents are in Summer holiday mode and nothing will get them back to school before September.

Just remember you're very normal OP. Don't let the other mums shake you.

Thing is, you’re not really looking to make new friends for yourself, your hoping to arrange play dates for your ds benefit, which is of course normal and what most people do. But if they can achieve that during working hours and have the weekends as family time then they’re going to because it’s more convenient. It’s not personal against you and your dd, it’s just the way it is.

I remember feeling similarly when I was a single parent with younger children. We had plenty of company during school holidays but weekends were family time for other people. They can’t make the weekends you suggest, you can’t make the afternoons they suggest. No one is doing anything wrong.

It will get easier as your dd gets older and makes her own friends that don’t need you to be having coffee with the other mums while she gets to play.

Yes maybe next time they suggest a (1:1) play date after school say ‘that sounds lovely. I’m working -is it ok with you if I pick dd up at 5?’ Then maybe you could have a coffee /glass of wine when you collect. (You take wine/cake as a thank you.

If you want to push it a bit more then when try add organising the group trips just ask if they wouldn’t mind dd tagging along (assuming she’s happy to go without you and she’s no trouble to have as an extra).

Those are both post pandemic ideas really but for now maybe try organising a little weekend meet up during the day in the park-just pick a couple of friends who dd is missing (and have nice mums!) and take picnic blankets so they can distance by staying on the blankets. I bet dd has learnt a few good games/activities they can play at a distance from being in school.

Good luck. It’s a tricky balance

It’s something that does bother you when you have DCs at primary school, but trust me, once she goes to high school none of it matters. Parents at the school gates don’t exist there. And I can say that whilst I accumulated a few ‘parent’ friends at my DCs primary, once they started high school those friendships fizzled out. It seems that you formulate the friendships because it’s convenient but then when your DCs deal with their own friendship groups independently, you can step back. I think because your dd might have to work a little bit harder now on her friendships, it will benefit her as she gets older, rather than those who have had their play dates all set up and arranged for them.

To be absolutely blunt, I was thinking that you sounded a bit self absorbed and entitled.....until I got to the bit about “can’t you take 5 months off to avoid the risk of sending DD back to school?” bit...!!

Re the play dates - I think you just have to accept that you’ve made different choices and have a different set up and lifestyle to some of these mothers. And that’s fine. But you can’t expect others to accommodate you, in the same way that they can’t expect you to alter your work schedule to accommodate them. Put really crassly, if you’re a SAHM, you have more time and less money than if you worked (where you have more money and less time). And that’s really the trade off. So if what works for someone else is doing social stuff during the week and spending time as a family at the weekend, then there’s nothing unreasonable about that.

But the school thing - utterly ridiculous. I think the only consolation is that your DD is going to be getting a really personal half term of education, which is a huge bonus at her age! She’ll have got to know other kids throughout the school and will no doubt be a mini celebrity among all the year 6 kids.

I worked and my daughter was privately educated, I recall one other woman working and the rest not.

It didn’t impact on my child’s friendships. We still did play dates but after school, I invited kids round, she was invited back.

I think maybe the difference is I didn’t give a second thought to the other mums and had no desire to make friends out of them or be “included”, I’d speak at the school dates or school events or play dates, but that was it, past that I simply didn’t give them any thought.

The issue here is you wish to be included and to be friends with them and I’m not sure how to make that better for you, other than play dates after school when they all go back.

But you need to make this about your daughter, not about you. If you want to make friends you need to find a different route and not school mums.

No advice really, but just wanted to say I get it. I work part time and have tried to make friends with school mums in order to help my dd and ds with their friendships. It's hard, Im pretty normal and I have struggled as I'm not around 3 days a week and a lot of play dates happen when I am working.
People here saying it doesn't matter and she will make friends, but I know that the kids who's mums meet up all the time and do stuff together have formed little friendship gangs and my dd is often outside of that.
If it were up to me I wouldn't bother but I think like all parents you don't want your kid to miss out if you feel like you could have done something to help.

@NataliaOsipova I try not to be self absorbed and entitled. I don't expect people to frame their whole lives around mine. I just wonder why some mums don't understand that me suggesting a play date at 5pm or on a Saturday morning isn't that unreasonable. If they can't make it then that's ok. It's also not unreasonable for them to suggest an afterschool date, I will try to make it and I have taken time off to take my dd to a play date. It's just it usually doesn't get to that point as there's no reply to my first message in which I said I can't do a play date tomorrow with 24 hours notice.
I just feel a disconnect to these mums, maybe it's class (they're MC, we're WC) maybe it's priorities (they are really really invested in what toys, books, tv their kids watch, diet etc) or maybe it's the work thing. My bf is a SAHP, lone parent, and we never find our differences an issue, it's all love and understanding. It's just these mums who seem to not get how hard things are, and I try to see things from their side too.

If it’s any consolation, if your DD was friends with mine, I’d definitely try and make it work. It wouldn’t hurt her to go to bed a little later if she met for a play date at 5 on a Friday. And I certainly would have no problem meeting on a weekend morning for a couple of hours. My DH would positively salivate at the thought of having a break from the children for a couple of hours!

I'm sorry but there's no way I'd want to do play dates after 5pm on sat or sunday either. To me, those are family days and after 5pm is when I want to finally sit down, and relax. I think you are being unfair disparaging their reasons for not wanting to meet then. Just because that time suits your life, doesnt mean its convenient for everyone else and after 5 is usually when kids start to get a bit overtired and grumpy anyway so its not the best time.

I'm not sure why you are so fixated on making other mum friends- these women dont sound particularly pleasant at all, they sound like judgy bores. I'd focus on making new friends- people that are more supportive and like yourself.

When you say class (WC MC), I totally get that. That was the first time I experienced class prejudice, when my dc attended primary school. I was working FT and lived in a small terraced in a not brilliant area, and I think you do experience being judged by other parents about whether your DCs are suitable friends for their own DCs. That judgement happens a lot and parents will gravitate more towards families with two parents, nice houses, living in upmarket areas. A poster upthread states that sahms are generally poorer financially than someone who works ft, but that’s untrue. Quite often sahms, particularly MC ones, are lucky enough to have a partner in a good job which enables them to stay at home, whilst the one working ft has to in order to just pay bills.

I just wonder why some mums don't understand that me suggesting a play date at 5pm or on a Saturday morning isn't that unreasonable

But it is unreasonable to expect parents to start a play date at 5pm on a school night. Most 4/5 year olds will be eating dinner, winding down, doing reading homework, having a bath and then going to bed. Why do you think it's reasonable to expect them to alter their routine completely and have a late night so your child can play with theirs? Of course 5pm is too late to start a play date for 5 year olds! You don't seem to realise this?

OP I’m assuming you work in the NHS.
Sadly it’s not just that you’re not available when they are. I’ve found that people are scared of me and my kids. They think that because I work in health care that we are just toxic virus filled people, who aren’t safe.
I put a box of cakes on a friend’s doorstep a few weeks ago as she’d said her young daughter was feeling low, and the cakes were pink girly stuff that I know she likes (not home made). Friend texted and said thanks but no thanks because they’d be full of virus.
I’ve heard of people saying their kids need to stay well away from mine because they’re certain to have coronavirus because of my job.
It’s horrible. But it will pass.

Sorry - I didn’t mean to sound unkind! And I can absolutely see why it’s difficult as you just want your DD to fit in and do what everyone else is doing, But to them, suggesting a 5pm/weekend play date probably is as unreasonable as suggesting that you take a day off is to you - you’re both suggesting that the other compromises their normal arrangements for the sake of something else.

I’d try not to worry about it. Certainly not about the school thing - I think your DD will benefit hugely from being back in a learning environment. And as for the friendship/play date thing, in my experience, it gets a lot easier with time. By year 2, they often go on their own and there’s not the same need for parents - it’s much less of a big deal to pick them up later.

I get this, I think it's always really hard being the odd one out in any context. I'd lower your expectations here to be honest.

I am in a similar situation op I work full time and don't do any school drop offs or pick ups. My dd joined a club that a few other girls in her class were in and through that I was able to connect with a few of the other mums by doing some of the drop offs/ pick ups for the club in the evening. That then led to some saying there is x after school I know you work so would you like me to take dd along.

I feel for you op. When my dd started school I worked 3 days a week and then when my ds started 2 years later I worked 4 days so I on'y did the drop off/pick up one day a week.

I've never liked the school mum 'clique' though to the honest. I made very good friends with my dd's best friend's mum who worked similar hours to me and she was really the only one I met up with outside of school. When ds started I didn't even really try but I had even less in common with his class mates mums that with my dd's.

I am still good friends with dd's best friend's mum 10 years later so I'd rather have made one lasting friendship than a few superficial ones.

There weren't many afterschool play dates that went on that I was aware of though and I always tried to get my kids to parties they were invited to by asking grandparents/other kids parents, etc.

I rarely did play dates after 5 or at weekends though as that was our family time together with my (ex) husband. I wouldn't have completely dismissed it if asked though.

Just to add I pick up all the girls from the club and they do they same as we live locally - I don't know if this made them realise that its not than I don't want to to can't be bothered getting involved in other things but that I am actually working

Tbh I get fed up that no one wants to meet me at weekends, which is dedicated husband time apparently.

with that attitude, you are the one pushing people away.

Surely as a working parent you should understand that other working parent, so that includes the FATHER, only really have a chance to catch up at the weekend.

In normal times, weekends are busy for everyday.

Nowadays, after weeks of staying local, we are finally free to take the kids away for the day. You are VERY unreasonable to assume everybody would love nothing more than hanging around because you want a playdate for your child.

5pm is very inconvenient, either we are still working or we finally stop and catch with the kids on homework before taking them out. Other families would be making tea and be busy too.