Why was I BU? Race related.

[asixthofafathom]

I know I was BU and I am sorry about it, but I don't understand.

I have a black friend who is really articulate and passionate and posts a lot on social media about race - the perfect person, I thought, to ask what to read and what not to read at the moment, so as to avoid stuff that is inaccurate and offensive and hear only the authentic voice of those being oppressed.

She went ballistic and unfriended me, then proceeded to rant publicly about how offensive, selfish and insensitive my request was. Her friends chimed in and started calling me names.

I accept that I was wrong. I know it was poor timing, she doesn't owe me anything and it's not her job to educate me. But I genuinely just wanted to learn and understand and show willingness to listen rather than just assume that I understand an experience that I don't share.

Why was I so wrong to ask? Please don't bite my head off (unless I deserve it), I genuinely meant well and was trying to show respect, and now I feel awful.

@DamnYouAutoCarrot there are racists and apologists for racism on this thread. Just look at the posts who are calling the OP’s friend a dick when the OP didn’t actually say what the friend said or what they said. Look at the people comparing racism to football and to farming and trying to pretend it’s the same as a friend not being interested in a hobby. Are you really a friend if you don’t care that people hurt your friend? I don’t think so, but posters on here are saying that the OPs friend isn’t a friend for unfriending the OP however, we have no idea why but I have to say I’m disappointed in my friends who are posting black squares today but laughed at me when I challenged them after saying I’m not racist but... they don’t want to change but are happy to pretend now it’s cool.

SoVeryLost, I don’t see a point in arguing with you because you’re clearly assuming anyone asking about the current situation is only ‘jumping on the bandwagon’. 🙄 People know there’s racism, they do. Those that claim they don’t are talking bolox. But until something like this jumps back in the media and causes such a huge outcry not everyone wants to get involved. Doesn’t make ‘em racist. Lazy, uninterested and ignorant perhaps but don’t automatically assume they’re a belligerent racist. In this situation if the OP was willingly ignorant she’s trying to remedy that by talking to someone who she (assumed) was a close friend, who she admired and had seen her posts before. She wants someone she trusts and cares about point of view.

Fuck sake, not everyone is demanding a BAME person drop what they’re doing and educate them because - white privilege. 🙄 She asked. That’s legit all she did.

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/30/why-im-no-longer-talking-to-white-people-about-race

"@DamnYouAutoCarrot there are racists and apologists for racism on this thread. Just look at the posts who are calling the OP’s friend a dick when the OP didn’t actually say what the friend said or what they said. Look at the people comparing racism to football and to farming and trying to pretend it’s the same as a friend not being interested in a hobby. Are you really a friend if you don’t care that people hurt your friend? I don’t think so, but posters on here are saying that the OPs friend isn’t a friend for unfriending the OP however, we have no idea why but I have to say I’m disappointed in my friends who are posting black squares today but laughed at me when I challenged them after saying I’m not racist but... they don’t want to change but are happy to pretend now it’s cool."

Yes, people are assuming this because they’re friends. Would they be friends if OP was a foaming racist? Most likely not given how passionate and public her friend is.

People are saying OP’s friend was a dick because unless OP demanded she teach her or was a cunt about it then yes she was a dick. Delete her to cool off - fine. Bash her, delete her, make a post about her and then slag her off to friends - dickish regardless of who you are.

Because it’s not on black people to educate white people about how much better their lives are because they are not black. You asking her what to do put the onus back on her again. You do the work. You find the resources, the books, the petitions that explain it to you. Google is a great place to start. Instagram is full of people who have shared brilliant resources for checking your privilege and the anti-racist movement.

Check in on your black friends and family members. Ask them if they’re ok. But don’t ask them to solve your problem and tell you how to feel better. They’re exhausted, you’re not. You do the work.

@saraclara please show me which part of the sentence was doctored? Really though, you wouldn’t describe your friend as white, you’d simply say you have an articulate friend. I’m assuming you’re white, and have never been constantly told “you’re really articulate, aren’t you?” Because why the fuck wouldn’t I be?

I'm sorry, but I think that you were incredibly insensitive. At this time, the only thing that is really acceptable is to show anger at what is going on.
Now is not the time to say, I am open minded. I want to know, show me.

Please write to her. Explain that you were so disastrously wrong to reach out as though it was her place to educate you, but you do care about the racial inequalities people are suffering. You wanted to show some solidarity but went about it in the wrong way, and for that you apologise.

Then keep your distance.

Also, if you have Facebook- theres a group called "that's violently american" it actually has a lot of posts from people who have been out and involved with the protests/riots.

It is actually far worse than our media are reporting.

@SistineScreamer you're absolutely right. Thank you for taking the time to explain that, much appreciated.

Sorry, meant @SoVeryLost

I’d have been pissed off and blocked you for using phrasing like “authentic voice” and “show willingness to listen”.

Why do you need to make a point of virtue signalling this “willingness to listen”?

How about... just don’t be fucking racist? It’s not hard.

Yes, going up to a random black friend to be educated would be offensive. But of this friend is an online activist, surely she's out to educate?

I do kind of agree with this to an extent.

I have black relatives. One in particular is very vocal on social media about racial issues and posts a lot about them. I've spoken to her about it in the past, we've had discussions and she's always been quite the opposite of OPs 'friend' in that she always seems very happy to have opened up a dialogue with people about an issue that's so important to her and lots of others.

She posted earlier on today that she's got time to speak to anyone who has any questions about her experiences, any content she shares etc... I personally think it's a very positive way to have a discussion.

But then as many have pointed out, one person does not speak for all. I know my relative and that they are always happy to have conversations about this whether it's for recommendations or just discussion, she also posted very clearly that she welcomed these conversations so it was obvious she was okay with that.

I personally wouldn't message someone I wasn't sure would be okay with it, although I appreciate and value the conversations I've been able to have with my relative over the years. I always come away with different view points and things I perhaps hadn't considered before.

This was what we had 10 or so years ago.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=nPglNjxVHiM

Skunk Anasie. Zero hair, kick ass voice, moaning abound blokes.

As pointed out by me and others, the friend already posts a lot about race issues, which the OP seems happy to have ignored, instead asking for guidance. Specific guidance for her despite all the posts that her friend had made before, and I'm willing to bet, resources and links to them.

Coming back to this, what on earth is this, “what should I avoid” nonsense?
Hint: anything that denies that racism exists, perhaps? 🙄

I would love to know what you actually said.

@SistineScreamer I’ve never said it was white privilege expecting people to be educated so thank you for putting words in my mouth. Like I said I have friends who laugh it off when being challenged after saying I’m not racist but... These same friends are now posting black squares. If they messaged a black friend I would welcome them being called out on their previous unapologetic racist behaviour.
I have only stated that the OP could have done her homework, and that at this time it is a little suspect based on my experiences.

There can be wrong on both sides. Why is it that we are holding the friend to a higher standard? Why must she answer in a way we find acceptable when the OP may not have asked the question in a way she found acceptable?

We have an OP where a calm, rational white person asks an oh so innocent and polite question.

Then black person then "goes ballistic" "rants" and then has her friends join her in attacking the poor innocent white person.

Your agenda is showing, OP. 0/10

@Ellisandra

Coming back to this, what on earth is this, “what should I avoid” nonsense? Hint: anything that denies that racism exists, perhaps? 🙄

I would love to know what you actually said.

We will never know because the OP is loving playing up to the racist angry black woman rhetoric. Like you I’d love to know because I bet this isn’t as clear cut as the OP is making out.

*Coming back to this, what on earth is this, “what should I avoid” nonsense?
Hint: anything that denies that racism exists, perhaps? *

Tbf though... I've just found out it's not ok to compliment black person if they are really articulate. Even though it's a compliment used on white people too. Simply because certain level of articulation is a really noticeable skill many don't possess...

I think it's more likely that the OP, who was already upset and anxious, has fled the thread after the pile on she's had. Much of it unfair, in my opinion. And which doesn't reflect the result of the poll.

I don't blame her actually. I think she acted in good faith, thinking that the friend wanted to inform, based on her past posting. And yes, while it was okay for the friend to not like being asked, the way she responded was over the top, and very publicit nasty. And now she's had a bunch of other people thinking the worst of her and publicly berating her.

Ugh. Publicly, not whatever that letter salad was.

I've heard of "articulate" being used as a backhanded compliment before. Presumably because it's got the subtext that you expected them not to be? Perhaps it's more loaded in America where there were rigged "tests" to see if people were allowed to vote (happy to be corrected).

As with anything written, it can be hard to judge tone and intention. If you're the millionth person who's asked for something then it gets more difficult to assume good faith.

Now is NOT the time to start pestering Black women with questions when you KNOW they are going to be extremely stressed, anxious, triggered, & trying to cope with white supremacist violence that's always there. Just stop. They aren't there to make you feel useful. That's on us.

Donate where you can, support the activists and writers who put the work out there, if you can't donate then share their work properly (with full credit) but do not ask them to do extra because it's lazy when everything you need to know is already out there, and even if it wasn't, don't even ask. Just don't. We have no idea how incredibly painful things are so we shouldn't add to it. This is basic empathy 101 & it seems too many lack it it entirely.

Well you're an adult & we do have Google y'know. It isn't her job, just because she's black & it's about race. I'd start with looking at slavery & it's history, then Martin Luther King. Regarding George Floyd this week, the private post mortem insisted on by family, found it was death by asphyxiation, his neck being knelt on for 8mins 46seconds, the last 2.5mins of which, he was clearly unresponsive in the video, so probably already dead. Its an exact repeat of a similar incident a few years ago where a cuffed black man shouted 'I can't breath' 11 times & died & further back, Rodney King (more stuff you can Google).

You are not being unreasonable, she is an individual who was passionate about the topic so you asked for advice, which is perfectly acceptable, she took ridiculous offence jumping straight on you for even asking and clearly isn't an honest or true friend to do so. I agree with above did you word it in a way where she could have misunderstood your reasoning for reaching out?

I think this thread has demonstrated succinctly why some white people can be reluctant to engage on the issue of race and racism.

Even you’ve genuinely tried to do the right thing, having taken the time to think about what you’re doing/saying/asking, and even if you’re actually doing what someone involved in the debate has asked or recommended you to do, if someone else seems that you’ve done the wrong thing then you risk being denounced as a tone-deaf, thoughtless racist and shamed accordingly.