To think the lockdown needs to end now?

[Fr0thandBubble]

I could understand a lockdown being imposed for a few weeks to make sure the NHS was up to capacity, but it’s gone well beyond that. The NHS now has lots of excess capacity and yet here we still are.

I am horrified by what has happened to our civil liberties, what it’s doing to our children’s education, what it’s doing to everyone’s livelihoods and mental health, what it’s doing to the economy, how people are not getting life-saving treatment for things like cancer, etc.

I don’t understand why people aren’t given the right to choose to self-isolate if they need to but for the rest of us to be allowed to get on with our lives and to take responsibility for ourselves.

I don’t understand why people who are not old and don’t have underlying health conditions are acting hysterically and why people have decided it’s OK to police other people’s behaviour and shout at them in the street.

I feel like I’m living in some kind of awful dystopian society.

I realise I’m in the minority here but does anyone agree with me?

Yeah, you can decide to go back to normal if you want.....however the teacher who teaches your children is high risk and is shielding. The surgeon who was meant to carry out your surgery is shielding, as is the nurse who assists him/her. Your childminder is shielding, as is your hairdresser. The bank manager has a congenital heart defect, so is shielding. Your colleague in your employment is shielding and can’t work from home. It’s not just as simple as saying let’s get back to normal!

@tootsie321

And if they are shielding they’re at home, so what is your point?

Just bored of taking about it to be honest. Go post on another thread Instead of creating a new one and leave space for something that will take people’s minds off this, will be good for mental health also.

And yet your still alive. If we let lock down slide too soon the death rate will increase massively and then the hospitals will not cope. It's about saving lives even now. Bloody complaining yet in reality our lock down was nothing compared to some countries.

Just bored of taking about it to be honest

So why post here? Maybe you like boring yourself?

Even though our lockdown may not have been as bad as other countries, then it doesn’t take away our lockdown, I know there are still risks but I think only the vulnerable should do all the isolating etc etc and let the rest of us get on with it, open everything up again but make it a condition that masks and gloves MUST be worn when going into places, and gloves removed when coming out, that will be far better than all this stuff.

[quote phoebesphalange]@tootsie321

And if they are shielding they’re at home, so what is your point?[/quote]
It’s quite simple really...
The point is that the op says.... “ I don’t understand why people aren’t given the right to choose to self-isolate if they need to but for the rest of us to be allowed to get on with our lives and to take responsibility for ourselves.”

How can everyone, who wants to get on with their lives, do so if the people who facilitate them getting on with their lives aren’t there to allow this?

My dd is a theatre nurse, who is shielding, as are 3 of her colleagues. One of my sils, who has a congenital heart defect, and 2 of his colleagues are shielding. My husband, and 2 of my friends, are shielding! There are 3 employees at the local nursery who are shielding.. etc etc!

Theatre at the local hospital, can’t get back to normal, when they don’t have enough staff to do so!
The local nursery can’t take all the children they usually do, because they don’t have enough staff to do so. So who is going to look after everyone else’s children?
I normally help out with childcare for my daughters, as do many other grandparents, but I can’t because my husband is shielding!

How do the rest of us just get back to normal?

^How can everyone, who wants to get on with their lives, do so if the people who facilitate them getting on with their lives aren’t there to allow this?*

Exactly. What strikes me on this thread is the arrogance of many who think that lockdown should end immediately. Firstly they think that they are so much better at looking at the statistics and evidence compared with the worlds scientists, doctors etc. Secondly they think they think they are superior to those that are at high risk and don't need them to "get the economy going".

How can everyone, who wants to get on with their lives, do so if the people who facilitate them getting on with their lives aren’t there to allow this?

Exactly. What strikes me on this thread is the arrogance of many who think that lockdown should end immediately. Firstly they think that they are so much better at looking at the statistics and evidence compared with the worlds scientists, doctors etc. Secondly they think they think they are superior to those that are at high risk and don't need them to "get the economy going".

Person upthread was suggesting that we all wear masks and gloves. So where do we get these from ? No doubt they’ll be bought in bulk and sold on eBay at triple the price going by what happened with toilet paper.

I know there are still risks but I think only the vulnerable should do all the isolating etc etc and let the rest of us get on with it, open everything up again

You can't "open everything up again" if millions of workers are vulnerable and shielding and can't go to work.

That's exactly what happened to the NHS. Some hospitals were reporting up to half their staff were off, some showing symptoms of Covid and hence self isolating and others stuck at home due to being vulnerable/shielding.

Like all the students wanting "normal" uni life. You can't have that as not all the teachers, lecturers, admin/support staff are young and healthy, so many will be shielding at home, or vulnerable being at work, but not able to be in close contact with the "young and healthy" who could be spreading it around between themselves.

Now do you get it?

@Tootsie321 do you really mean shielding though? Or are they people with health concerns who are self isolating?

Because those who are shielding in the true sense are not likely to be people in mainstream employment simply by virtue of the serious health problems they have.

There are other people who have been advised to stay at home because they have issues such as asthma - this is not the same as shielding.

I think there will be enough surgeons and nurses to start reactivating surgery and essential clinics across the country as SOME provision is better than no provision. And this applies across the board for schools, nursery, businesses.

Those who can should be back at work, now.

Because those who are shielding in the true sense are not likely to be people in mainstream employment simply by virtue of the serious health problems they have.

Rubbish! Plenty of those who are shielding are employed. Even if "just" vulnerable many still are not going to go into work, or visit cafes, restaurants etc so potentially a third of the population (once you include other household members)

There is also a large number of people who lean on the “vulnerable” part to excuse them from having to go to work.

As I said, those who truly have no choice and are shielding as it protects their lives have got many other life limiting issues. They are not surgeons performing at the top of their game. So let’s not pretend that’s a decent excuse for keeping hospital appointment books closed.

@user1497207191

I know there are still risks but I think only the vulnerable should do all the isolating etc etc and let the rest of us get on with it, open everything up again

You can't "open everything up again" if millions of workers are vulnerable and shielding and can't go to work.

That's exactly what happened to the NHS. Some hospitals were reporting up to half their staff were off, some showing symptoms of Covid and hence self isolating and others stuck at home due to being vulnerable/shielding.

Like all the students wanting "normal" uni life. You can't have that as not all the teachers, lecturers, admin/support staff are young and healthy, so many will be shielding at home, or vulnerable being at work, but not able to be in close contact with the "young and healthy" who could be spreading it around between themselves.

Now do you get it?

This is complete nonsense.

The people who are 'at risk' or shielding are generally at risk. If they want to behave proportionally, they should roughly double their usual mitigations until the tide of covid19 has receded (which it probably already has).

The majority of people who have received shielding letters probably do absolutely nothing to mitigate risks in a usual year, despite the fact that they face an ongoing elevated risk of death, which makes this entire exercise absolutely farcical.

The tranche of shielders who are at the highest risk will have already had to get to grips with their own version of normality in years prior.

There is also a large number of people who lean on the “vulnerable” part to excuse them from having to go to work.

How do you know that? Just because someone isn't in the shielding category it doesn't mean they aren't at at high risk. Regardless, if someone gives a reason for being in at high risk they probably aren't going to be forced to work so irrelevant. I think they have already said teachers don't have to work if vulnerable for example. You also can't force people to visit cafes, restaurants, cinemas and theatres etc so those businesses won't make a profit if all the people who are at high risk and their households stay at home.

As I said, those who truly have no choice and are shielding as it protects their lives have got many other life limiting issues. They are not surgeons performing at the top of their game. So let’s not pretend that’s a decent excuse for keeping hospital appointment books closed.

The shielding don't all have "life-limiting" conditions at all. They are not necessarily surgeons but that doesn't mean that they don't work and contribute to the economy.

The majority of people who have received shielding letters probably do absolutely nothing to mitigate risks in a usual year, despite the fact that they face an ongoing elevated risk of death, which makes this entire exercise absolutely farcical.

Agree with this and I would think it's even more applicable to those in the vulnerable category.

The majority of people who have received shielding letters probably do absolutely nothing to mitigate risks in a usual year, despite the fact that they face an ongoing elevated risk of death, which makes this entire exercise absolutely farcical.

So now you think that those who have received shielding letters don't actually need to shield and that they and their doctors are just making up the fact that they are high risk to get out of working.

I’m old enough to remember the nine o’clock news on the BBC having a daily update on the number of job losses. I fear we may see a return to that once the the number of Covid deaths has fallen to an insignificant number

@user1497207191

I know there are still risks but I think only the vulnerable should do all the isolating etc etc and let the rest of us get on with it, open everything up again

You can't "open everything up again" if millions of workers are vulnerable and shielding and can't go to work.

That's exactly what happened to the NHS. Some hospitals were reporting up to half their staff were off, some showing symptoms of Covid and hence self isolating and others stuck at home due to being vulnerable/shielding.

Like all the students wanting "normal" uni life. You can't have that as not all the teachers, lecturers, admin/support staff are young and healthy, so many will be shielding at home, or vulnerable being at work, but not able to be in close contact with the "young and healthy" who could be spreading it around between themselves.

Now do you get it?

Not really no. Doesn’t mean lockdown has to continue for everyone? Sure, not everything might be exactly as it was, but it doesn’t need to be an all or nothing situation. There were originally 1.5 million people on the government’s shielding list. That may have increased, but it still leaves 60+ million people in the UK to get on with their lives!

Not really no. Doesn’t mean lockdown has to continue for everyone? Sure, not everything might be exactly as it was, but it doesn’t need to be an all or nothing situation. There were originally 1.5 million people on the government’s shielding list. That may have increased, but it still leaves 60+ million people in the UK to get on with their lives!

The shielding list only accounts for the very high risk though. The number of are "just vulnerable" is much higher and even if they work in some capacity they mostly aren't going to visit cafes, restaurants, gyms etc.

@mrpumblechook

The majority of people who have received shielding letters probably do absolutely nothing to mitigate risks in a usual year, despite the fact that they face an ongoing elevated risk of death, which makes this entire exercise absolutely farcical.

So now you think that those who have received shielding letters don't actually need to shield and that they and their doctors are just making up the fact that they are high risk to get out of working.

I don't know how you could read my post and arrive at that conclusion.

Why don't you re-read it.

Also, they're not at 'high' risk, they're at 'higher' risk.

Also, they're not at 'high' risk, they're at 'higher' risk.

So now you are saying that people who are shielding are not at "high risk" of dying if they catch coronavirus? What would you define as high risk and how do you know that they do not have that risk?

My son received a letter.
He’s asthmatic.
He’s also 20, 9.5 stones and fit as a flea.
His asthma is completely controlled and he doesn’t take up a yearly flu injection.
When he questioned it, he was told it was ‘standard’.

I don't know how you could read my post and arrive at that conclusion.

I arrived at that conclusion were talking about people being told to shield and you said that the "entire exercise was absolutely farcical". I also don't know how you could possibly know whether the majority of those people do nothing to mitigate the risks the rest of the year.