To think the lockdown needs to end now?

[Fr0thandBubble]

I could understand a lockdown being imposed for a few weeks to make sure the NHS was up to capacity, but it’s gone well beyond that. The NHS now has lots of excess capacity and yet here we still are.

I am horrified by what has happened to our civil liberties, what it’s doing to our children’s education, what it’s doing to everyone’s livelihoods and mental health, what it’s doing to the economy, how people are not getting life-saving treatment for things like cancer, etc.

I don’t understand why people aren’t given the right to choose to self-isolate if they need to but for the rest of us to be allowed to get on with our lives and to take responsibility for ourselves.

I don’t understand why people who are not old and don’t have underlying health conditions are acting hysterically and why people have decided it’s OK to police other people’s behaviour and shout at them in the street.

I feel like I’m living in some kind of awful dystopian society.

I realise I’m in the minority here but does anyone agree with me?

The whole point of a community is that we look outside of ourselves for the greater good of others and that is what we have been asked to do eg. to stay in so we don't pose a threat to the elderly or ill. I find threads like this so woe is me!

The irony of this post is nuts.
Woe is me? Look outside yourself - these people are suffering in lockdown.

Agree with you completely OP. I'm not convinced you're in a minority on here though - I just think the other side shout louder.

Thank God!

[quote mrpumblechook]You’re wrong - the economy is booming in Sweden, get your facts right

Get your facts right.
www.businessinsider.com/sweden-economy-likely-wont-benefit-from-decision-avoid-lockdown-report-2020-5?r=US&IR=T[/quote]
Compared to the rest of Europe, Sweden is 'booming' - the Swedish economy has contracted far less sharply than the rest of the continent (and the UK).

Obviously they're going to suffer a knock-on effect from other countries locking down and their own voluntary social distancing measures.

Absolutely agree with you, OP.

I think the main issue in comparing the UK with Sweden is that Sweden has a much better funded health service. If the UK had a higher infection rate there is no way the NHS would have coped.

@weepingwillow22

I think the main issue in comparing the UK with Sweden is that Sweden has a much better funded health service. If the UK had a higher infection rate there is no way the NHS would have coped.

The UK had excess capacity throughout. This is not true.

100% agree with you OP.

The population of Sweden is 10 million and we are 66 million
It’s hardly like comparing apples with apples is it?

Another who agrees with Fr0thandBubble 100%. Well said OP.

I've just been diagnosed with BC but there will be a lot of people who are scared to go to the doctor with all sorts of symptoms. Please go and get checked out.

I agree. It’s about time they opened play equipment at parks now some kids are back at school.

When you look at the statistics and risk of suffering Covid-19 compared to any other illness or accident it’s very low.

I’m not worried about catching it more than I am about having cancer or getting any other illness or being hit by a car.

My understanding was the lockdown was only ever about slowing the spread as to not overwhelm the NHS. Considering the Nightingale wasn’t even used I think we can be confident of that! So let’s get back to normal.

People are going to suffer in different ways if we don’t, mental health, pain from routine operations and healthcare being suspended, lack of dental treatment, the economy collapsing or being back has a much worse longer term negative effect on people’s health.

If you need to shield or choose to fine, but let’s get everything else going again.

I think you need to take a step back and think for a moment, OP. This situation, as it currently is, won’t last forever. Lockdown will ease gradually and kids will go back to school. It’s a gross exaggeration to call it dystopian IMO. It’s a pandemic. They happen, like forest fires do. It’s up to you how you respond to it.

It isn’t comfortable to give up some civil liberties for a short time - but do it in the knowledge that you are avoiding a virus unlike any other, and you are protecting your family and other contacts as well. It isn’t enough to simply isolate the elderly/ill/vulnerable and let others get on with their lives - consider the vectors of those they may have contact with. Are you suggesting that these people never see their loved ones?

I think still a lot of people just don't get what's going on hear. We never had a proper lock down like France, Italy or Spain and if we had we may actually be in a better position now to open up a bit more. They shut everyone inside you weren't allowed out for anything other then shopping.

Second if we let this just run through the population it's highly contagious, around 20% of people need hospital treatment. They think now maybe 40% may get it asymptomatic (thats the higher estatetamte). Then within a short period of time we need to treat around 8 million people in hospital.

If you have been paying attention to anything from the doctors coming out of Italy and New York where they got overwhelmed by cases. This didn't just include sick or old people but young and healthy people to. The difference being the death rate in the elderly is higher. If we couldn't cope with the number of people in hospital then the death rate in younger people I'm sure would go up to.

This is much more contagious then flu, we are now seeing asymptomatic spreaders. Which is why a call for masks in public is actually a good idea. They are still learning a lot about this virus.

While I don't think we can live with full restrictions forever. I think our government did a poor job. We should have had a full lockdown like most European countries to get the numbers down more, then a track and trace system would have been more effective. As things stand at the moment we are in very real danger of another big peak and needing another lockdown.

Causing way more damage to our aconamy and everyone's mental health then maybe was needed if they had done it properly in the first place.

Second if we let this just run through the population it's highly contagious, around 20% of people need hospital treatment. They think now maybe 40% may get it asymptomatic (thats the higher estatetamte). Then within a short period of time we need to treat around 8 million people in hospital.

8 million hospitalised? I'd love to see a link.

@marginalgain. There are two main reasons the uk had excess capacity.

The first is becuase they cancelled their regular workload. Just look at all the people that had their cancer treatments delayed, the excess mortality caused by people not turning up to a&e becuase they were scared and the increase in deaths due to heart attacks etc that were not treated.

The second reason was becuase the uk preferred to let covid patients struggle on at home rather than treat them in hospital. This is itself has led to excess deaths as many were treated too late.

In addition, although the nighingale hospitals were largrly not used, it is doubtful whether there would have been sufficient staff to run them had they been needed. At one point there was even talk of getting air hostesses to act as healthcare assistants in them due to a lack of medical staff.

You don't need a link. These are basic facts about the virus and a simple sum. I will make it explicit.

If we have a population of 67 million and 80% get infected and 15% ( 20% is an upper limit ) need hospitalisation then a total of over 8 million people need hospitalisation during the lifetime of the virus

Now we have somewhere between 5 and 10% of the population already infected so less than 8 million to go, but over 7 million

If current virus levels are around 2000 new infections a day
Unchecked ( R of 3 ) that number doubles every week ( a bit quicker really but let's keep it simple)

So after 15 weeks we have everyone infected (in reality it will slow a bit as we get over 50%)

So that's 8 million people needing hospitalisation in a period of around 15 weeks with a typical stay of around 4 weeks in ICU, I guess less for most people. Say 1 week on average.

That's roughly 500,000 people needing hospital treatment just for covid every week for over 4 months

@MarginalGain

Second if we let this just run through the population it's highly contagious, around 20% of people need hospital treatment. They think now maybe 40% may get it asymptomatic (thats the higher estatetamte). Then within a short period of time we need to treat around 8 million people in hospital.

8 million hospitalised? I'd love to see a link.

Here is a link www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/uk-coronavirus-crisis-to-last-until-spring-2021-and-could-see-79m-hospitalised

Errrr. Deaths? Lots of unnecessary deaths. Leading to lots of grief, trauma and suffering by many many more. That’s why.

Why do people keep banging on about what we should have done earlier this year? It’s not about what happened then but what should happen now. And we know now who is likely to get infected and where the highest risks are (hospitals and care homes).

We should focus on protecting the most vulnerable and end lockdown so that the rest of society can start to get going again.

As has been said in previous posts, the vast majority of people with cancer had their treatment suspended, allowing the disease to run unchecked whilst some of our nurses were sat twiddling their thumbs. Who knows how many of them will die as a result of delayed treatment. Only now is treatment restarting. Lots of people have been discouraged from visiting their GP unless urgent - many people visit their gp with ‘niggles’ which after testing are diagnosed with serious illness; again these people are going to have been disadvantaged by delayed treatment. Many people in care homes diagnosed with COVID who subsequently died, didn’t die of COVID, but WITH it, having died due to other illnesses, so we have to question whether many of these deaths in care homes should be attributed to COVID.

You're using worst-case scenario data from three months ago. Why?

The reality is that we are coming out of lockdown regardless of the official position. In my corner of the SE it was packed yesterday with very little social distancing and certainly no limit on group sizes. The roads are busy and many non essential shops have opened and cafes are all open for takeaway. Even with schools shut we’ll be into summer holidays soon so things will be similar to usual...

www.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/30/this-man-knows-hes-dying-as-surely-as-i-do-a-doctors-dispatches-from-intensive-care

I think there are a lot of different things going on on this thread and a lot of them are a result of a combination of piss poor government handling and pretty terrifying manipulation.

Of course the NHS hasn’t been overwhelmed... they stopped EVERYTHING so they could concentrate on Covid. They also drafted in retired doctors and built new hospitals. Add that to the fact that a huge percentage, much more than the government modelled, stuck to the lockdown rules, it’s not surprising is it? The NHS coped because it’s workload was slashed by 99% and everyone stayed in doors.

Had lockdown not happened and everyone was going about their daily business AND the NHS continued to work to its normal routine, we would have had chaos. It was never really about stopping people dying from coronavirus, it was about stopping people dying from lack of beds, treatment and staff.

The lockdown was too late, poorly implemented and badly communicated and that’s the reason it has gone on so long. It could have been shorter if we had had a stricter lockdown and come out of it gradually. As it happens, the prime minister is throwing England to the wolves while the other three nations take a more cautious approach.

Elderly and vulnerable have lost their lives. They continue to risk losing their lives. The risk has not changed that much, they've just got ICU beds available now. Ending shutdown too soon or too quickly puts more and more lives at risk. It is not possible to just isolate the vulnerable

What about people dying as a result of lockdown?

Try telling a child who's house has been repossessed that the economy will get better.