Why does society minimise sibling violence and abuse?

[TheKrakening3]

Just that really. I grew up with a physically and emotionally abusive older brother. Classic sibling abuse situation- older brother, younger sister, close in age and latch key kids.

If a boy at school had done to me what my brother would do to me, they would be expelled or at least suspended. But when I would tell teachers at school, they would just brush it off, telling me it was normal and they were sure we would be best friends when we were adults. We are NC.

I get shivers when I read the coercive control threads. I was spat on almost every day, had my food tampered with, physically blocked from going to the toilet so I had to use a container in my room, verbally abused and had my sleep controlled. He would burst in on me when I was changing, hide my books and endlessly intimidate me. It was constant. He never got bored. He had no other interests. He was always the perpetrator, I was always the victim. Me being scared and miserable made him so happy.

And yet when I told people at the time, it was dismissed. I was a sensitive sally who couldn’t handle a bit of normal sibling rough and tumble. All siblings fight! Don’t ya know! It’s normal. They would then regale me with tales of their fights with their siblings and invariably finish off with saying how they fought like cats and dogs but love each other and have each other’s backs.

My parents were absolutely useless- “you 2 are old enough to sort this out yourselves” was their refrain. I can on some level understand the denial and delusion of parents in this situation as they love all their children. I read threads about desperate parents who have just been hit by their teenagers. It usually comes out that the teenager has been terrorising younger siblings for years but that was not a big issue in the parent’s eyes until they themselves got hit. I’m not talking about toddlers and very young children here- why is a nearly fully grown teenage boy hitting a smaller child not an issue just because they are siblings in the same home?

Parents aside though, why does society not treat sibling abuse like other abuse? For those in mandatory reporting and safeguarding roles, do you take it seriously? Or is it just a family matter, like DV between adults used to be?

So that’s my rather incoherent rant. I would be interested to hear from other posters who had violent siblings. Who helped you? Who believed you? I’m just trying to get my jumbled thoughts together about this.

I don't know how it's handled today despite working in a secondary school.

I do feel for you though. My best friend was in a similar situation when we were growing up. Her mum was on her own and her brother would threaten her too and threaten one with hurting the other.

There were several occasions as we got older when I remember saying to my mum (who was friends with hers) 'should we do something'.

The bottom line was that my friend's mum loved her son dearly despite his behaviour and would have been in bits if he'd been removed from the home, for instance.

My friend spent a lot of time at our house.

Name changed here but I am a long time poster.

I'm sorry you had such a tough childhood. I think some sibling fighting is normal. But what you experienced is very much not so. I also suffered at the hands of an older brother. We fought like most siblings do, name calling, kicking that kind of thing.
But he also mentally and sexually abused me for years. I had 2 terminations as a teen because of him. No one helped me. Well that's not strictly true, my friends did but as teens there were limits to what they could do. When I told my mum she didn't believe me. :(

You are very right. I'm sorry for what you went through. Thank you for sharing your story.

What you went through was very wrong. As a parent of 2 kids who do fight sometimes I will learn from this and try to intervene.

@MyNicknameDoesntMeanAthing I'm so sorry this happened to you. X

@MyNicknameDoesntMeanAthing

Name changed here but I am a long time poster.

I'm sorry you had such a tough childhood. I think some sibling fighting is normal. But what you experienced is very much not so. I also suffered at the hands of an older brother. We fought like most siblings do, name calling, kicking that kind of thing.
But he also mentally and sexually abused me for years. I had 2 terminations as a teen because of him. No one helped me. Well that's not strictly true, my friends did but as teens there were limits to what they could do. When I told my mum she didn't believe me. :(

I too am sorry this happened to you and I am so sorry you weren’t believed by your Mum. My brother did not sexually abuse me but was absolutely sexually inappropriate and enjoyed humiliating me by bursting into my room whenever he felt like it.

I've worked in child protection for 15 years (not in a front line role) and we're only now in 2020 developing training on inter sibling abuse. I think people have been afraid to address it as when we do start to "see" it there will be so much of it they won't really know what to do.

@RichmondMumof2

You are very right. I'm sorry for what you went through. Thank you for sharing your story.

What you went through was very wrong. As a parent of 2 kids who do fight sometimes I will learn from this and try to intervene.

My 3 kids fight too! I can also say they adore each other so there is not the underlying nastiness like my brother had. And crucially, without trying to micromanage things, I always step in when it doesn’t settle quickly. It’s tiresome and exhausting and sometimes I feel like just leaving them to it. But that would make me like my parents so I intervene before it gets out of hand.

@Joywillcomeagain

I've worked in child protection for 15 years (not in a front line role) and we're only now in 2020 developing training on inter sibling abuse. I think people have been afraid to address it as when we do start to "see" it there will be so much of it they won't really know what to do.

That is interesting to hear. I have done some research on it and the most noteworthy thing is there is hardly any research. The average Joe simply doesn’t understand the crucial differences between sibling rivalry and sibling abuse.

Yes that's it barely any research has been done. It feels to me like how domestic abuse between couples was originally seen before it was taken more seriously (although we're far from 'there' with that but it's at least seen as a problem if you see what I mean). Sibling abuse is a kind of behind closed doors issue that services shouldn't get involved with. Easily explained away with "all children fight" I think in 5 years or so we'll be shocked at our own attitude.

Sorry that's worded wrong should say sibling abuse is seen as a behind closed door issue.

Yep, you are right. It doesn’t get taken seriously. I posted the other day because a few days ago my sister came round my house to beat me up in front of my 4 children because we had an argument. She turned up at my house and wanted to beat me up but I didn’t open the door. She use to beat me up all the time when we were younger teens/ early 20s she would attack me over small things like spilling glue on her sofa on accident. No one in the family ever done anything. I had thought she had grown up but clearly not.

@PumpkinP

Yep, you are right. It doesn’t get taken seriously. I posted the other day because a few days ago my sister came round my house to beat me up in front of my 4 children because we had an argument. She turned up at my house and wanted to beat me up but I didn’t open the door. She use to beat me up all the time when we were younger teens/ early 20s she would attack me over small things like spilling glue on her sofa on accident. No one in the family ever done anything. I had thought she had grown up but clearly not.

That would have been terrifying. Nothing worse than your family who are meant to love and protect you looking the other way, Have you considered reporting her to the police? Although my fear would be it would not be taking seriously because society says a sibling beating you is not like a stranger beating you. (Sarcasm of course!)

My brother was similar to yours and I’m also NC with him. He trained his Rottweiler to attack me when I was 14-15. Apparently it was funny to see how I’m rolling around on the floor trying to cover myself from bites.
Subsequently I used to beat up my 2 years younger sister, for which I am very ashamed now. And luckily we get along fine now. Although I wouldn’t blame her if she didn’t want to have any kind of relationship with me after that.

And my mother is still in denial about my brother and his abuse towards us.

My DC don’t fight. They have 10 years age gap and I won’t tolerate my DS hitting his 5 yo sister. But I also very often have to tell her off for trying to hit him. I know it’s not the same as with 2 years age gap, but can still turn ugly, so just not allowing any of it.

I think people expect sibling conflict and therefore don't identify when it tips into abuse. There definitely needs to be more research in this area and conflict resolution skills be discussed as part of parenting.

As you said no one would tolerate an unrelated child holding down and spitting on their child and if that child was older and more powerful it would be easily identifiable as unacceptable and abusive...or at least i hope it would be.

My older brother terrorised me and my oldest brother. We were latch key kids and I just didn't go home until dinner time to avoid him as much as possible. Talk to my mum now and it was all a bit of a laugh. Not so much for us.

My brother does regret his behaviour but is still has poor social skills which make him spikey. I'm an adult now and I wish we had a nice close family but we don't. I'm pretty angry at my parents but I have my own family now and I hope I'm raising them to do things differently.

@Laserbird16

I think people expect sibling conflict and therefore don't identify when it tips into abuse. There definitely needs to be more research in this area and conflict resolution skills be discussed as part of parenting.

As you said no one would tolerate an unrelated child holding down and spitting on their child and if that child was older and more powerful it would be easily identifiable as unacceptable and abusive...or at least i hope it would be.

My older brother terrorised me and my oldest brother. We were latch key kids and I just didn't go home until dinner time to avoid him as much as possible. Talk to my mum now and it was all a bit of a laugh. Not so much for us.

My brother does regret his behaviour but is still has poor social skills which make him spikey. I'm an adult now and I wish we had a nice close family but we don't. I'm pretty angry at my parents but I have my own family now and I hope I'm raising them to do things differently.

I think expecting sibling conflict is the crux of it. Sibling relations are complex. A younger sibling can needle at and wind up an older sibling until the inevitable explosion. My 5 year old DD is a professional wind-up merchant and I am forever dealing with this. Without victim-blaming her, she needs to know that needling DS8 until he explodes is not ok and he needs to learn to control his outbursts. Most people think back to their siblings and can see it took two to tango and they were able to give as good as they got.

Sibling abuse is something different and crosses the complex sibling relationships line. From the limited amount of research out there, the main identifying factor is when one sibling is always the perpetrator and the other sibling is always the victim. It is usually older brother/younger siblings or older sister/younger sisters. Occasionally it is older sister/younger brother but this dynamic generally ends when he hits puberty and becomes stronger than her.

@HoomanMoomin

My brother was similar to yours and I’m also NC with him. He trained his Rottweiler to attack me when I was 14-15. Apparently it was funny to see how I’m rolling around on the floor trying to cover myself from bites. Subsequently I used to beat up my 2 years younger sister, for which I am very ashamed now. And luckily we get along fine now. Although I wouldn’t blame her if she didn’t want to have any kind of relationship with me after that.

And my mother is still in denial about my brother and his abuse towards us.

My DC don’t fight. They have 10 years age gap and I won’t tolerate my DS hitting his 5 yo sister. But I also very often have to tell her off for trying to hit him. I know it’s not the same as with 2 years age gap, but can still turn ugly, so just not allowing any of it.

Your brother sounds awful. That would have been beyond frightening with the Rottweiler. It is amazing how much violence parents will tolerate towards their child when the attacker is another child.

I am glad you and your sister have worked through matters. I never had younger siblings. I would like to think I would never have hurt them but will never know for sure,

I’ve done some research on sibship violence and it is everything you have said- underreported and not acknowledged as real violence by families and many professionals.
Unfortunately it is all to common. I was a victim also and the physical abuse I endured was minimised and ridiculed. The mental torture, bullying and coercion was relentless and continued well into adulthood until I went nc.
My brother is a truly awful person - my mother now acknowledges his abuse of me and apologised for not protecting me. This only happened because my brother began to verbally abuse my mother and she went nc with him. I have no doubt in my mind that when and if my brother and mother mend their relationship my mother will return to defending my brother and I will go back to being ignored. I was always the disposable one.

I’m sorry for everything you endured.

Yes. As the younger sister my experience was I couldn't physically hurt my brother but I could have some control by getting to him mentally. Hence the needling. I can't actually recall arguing with my eldest brother and we never physically fought as we had a common enemy, plus he is a very sweet person.

Also now my spikey brother is older he can dish it out but can't take it. I hate how he talks to his partner and child. Sometimes I'll take on an argument on their behalf just for sport. I know he won't hurt me physically and I am much better at annoying him than they are. I suppose the positive I can think of is in my life outside my family I don't suffer bullies lightly as I'm fresh out of fucks to give to nasty people

@Beerincomechampagnetastes

I’ve done some research on sibship violence and it is everything you have said- underreported and not acknowledged as real violence by families and many professionals. Unfortunately it is all to common. I was a victim also and the physical abuse I endured was minimised and ridiculed. The mental torture, bullying and coercion was relentless and continued well into adulthood until I went nc. My brother is a truly awful person - my mother now acknowledges his abuse of me and apologised for not protecting me. This only happened because my brother began to verbally abuse my mother and she went nc with him. I have no doubt in my mind that when and if my brother and mother mend their relationship my mother will return to defending my brother and I will go back to being ignored. I was always the disposable one.

I’m sorry for everything you endured.

I’m sorry you went through this too. My brother has a farm labouring job and lives with my parents for 4-5 months a year. I avoid their home while he is there. He makes them miserable and makes life rather unbearable for that period. My mum has had the nerve to me to complain about it a couple of times. I have given her a rather short shrift. She has choices. They don’t have to let him stay. They can get in a car and drive away when he is bad. They can pack up their caravan for a week and get away from him. I could not do this as a child when I was stuck with him alone for 12 hours a day on weekends and school holidays. There was no public transport. I didn’t drive. I couldn’t get away. I bore the brunt of it as a child and they looked away as it was too hard to deal with.

The parents are to blame here for not managing this behaviour in the home and protecting the victims.

20/30 years later, are you going to confront and blame the sibling who beat you up when your parents allowed such behaviour to take place?

@PumpkinP
I hope you are seriously considering going very low contact or even NO contact with her. Thus is not great for you and awful for your children

This is the sort of behaviour that would, surely, have led you to report her to the police if you were not related?

@HoomanMoomin
He trained his Rottweiler to attack me when I was 14-15. Apparently it was funny to see how I’m rolling around on the floor trying to cover myself from bites.

And my mother is still in denial about my brother and his abuse towards us.

My goodness! Are you still in contact with them? If so keep a close eye on your children if these people are anywhere near them.

Ultimately, other than cases of SEN where a lot of extra (currently lacking) support is needed, parents are usually accountable when siblings abuse one another.
Either due to a failure to exert discipline (neglect) or because they themselves use hitting as a discipline technique to gain control and show disapproval for actions, which the child then learns as an acceptable response that they can use on others.

A child might bully their sibling because they too are being bullied at school. But it's still a parent's responsibility to set the boundaries of what is acceptable in the home, and to seek help if they are unable to exert them.

A child is a child. They learn what they know and know what they learn. But even parents are carrying around a lot of shit around from their own childhoods that they have come to accept as normal. They need to break the cycle, but often fail in their duty as a parent to do so.

But then again, it's easier said than done.

If we don't have mental health and parenting support services readily available in adulthood, how can we break the cycle?

If there are no laws to prevent parents from hitting their children as punishment, then how can we hold children accountable to higher standards? We as society are saying this is okay.

We need resources to tackle this problem. But I fear in the current economic climate these resources will be more tightly stretched than ever.

There’s a sliding scale I suspect. We did lots of fun play fighting and yes regular incidents of being intentionally hurt emotionally or physically but was pretty average I think sibling wise. I recon it was linked to my parents not meeting emotional and physical needs of me and my siblings. Lack of positive quality attention and using energy appropriately (sport). Also a lack of parental boundaries

I had a violent brother. He wasn't nearly as abusive as yours, OP but I would have ha a happier childhood without him. I think parents don't know how to handle it, especially once they hit teen years, and there is no real support or guidance.

Maybe they realise, subconsciously, that if they recognize it they are stuck in an untenable position. The only way to actually protect those siblings is to separate or have 24 hour supervision. Everything else is a risk for the victim. Very few parents are in a position to do that. So they ignore and hope maturity will calm things down.