Why does society minimise sibling violence and abuse?

[TheKrakening3]

Just that really. I grew up with a physically and emotionally abusive older brother. Classic sibling abuse situation- older brother, younger sister, close in age and latch key kids.

If a boy at school had done to me what my brother would do to me, they would be expelled or at least suspended. But when I would tell teachers at school, they would just brush it off, telling me it was normal and they were sure we would be best friends when we were adults. We are NC.

I get shivers when I read the coercive control threads. I was spat on almost every day, had my food tampered with, physically blocked from going to the toilet so I had to use a container in my room, verbally abused and had my sleep controlled. He would burst in on me when I was changing, hide my books and endlessly intimidate me. It was constant. He never got bored. He had no other interests. He was always the perpetrator, I was always the victim. Me being scared and miserable made him so happy.

And yet when I told people at the time, it was dismissed. I was a sensitive sally who couldn’t handle a bit of normal sibling rough and tumble. All siblings fight! Don’t ya know! It’s normal. They would then regale me with tales of their fights with their siblings and invariably finish off with saying how they fought like cats and dogs but love each other and have each other’s backs.

My parents were absolutely useless- “you 2 are old enough to sort this out yourselves” was their refrain. I can on some level understand the denial and delusion of parents in this situation as they love all their children. I read threads about desperate parents who have just been hit by their teenagers. It usually comes out that the teenager has been terrorising younger siblings for years but that was not a big issue in the parent’s eyes until they themselves got hit. I’m not talking about toddlers and very young children here- why is a nearly fully grown teenage boy hitting a smaller child not an issue just because they are siblings in the same home?

Parents aside though, why does society not treat sibling abuse like other abuse? For those in mandatory reporting and safeguarding roles, do you take it seriously? Or is it just a family matter, like DV between adults used to be?

So that’s my rather incoherent rant. I would be interested to hear from other posters who had violent siblings. Who helped you? Who believed you? I’m just trying to get my jumbled thoughts together about this.

One of my friends was sexually abused by his brother for years - his parents didn't believe him, his other brother regularly beat him up - his parents did nothing - it's not surprising that he has now no contact with his family.
My other best friend was repeatedly raped by her step brother - while her siblings were moving out in protest at their hated step-mother, her adult son was raping my friend and no one noticed.
I suppose I got off lightly - my brother only broke my finger and dragged me across the carpet leaving severe burns on my back - after that incident he had the good sense to leave home for a few days while my Dad calmed down - it was the only time he reacted to sibling violence.
My sister was continually calling piggy and fatty by my brothers, jokes about her physical appearance were an everyday occurance - in some way I think they imagined she'd be shamed into losing weight - it was appalling.
For whatever reason, luck or parenting I have no idea which but my kids - 16 years old now, have never physically hurt each other and they speak to each other with respect - they don't always agree but they resolve things in a civil manner - as they are expected to do, it's something I feel very strongly about.

This is the best question I’ve read on here, OP. You are absolutely right in what you say. It is good to read that at last steps are being taken to address the problem. I’m sorry you suffered. This problem didn’t affect me but I can completely see that people turned and obviously still turn a blind eye to a serious problem.

I do not tolerate any violence between my own DC. At the moment, they are getting along very well but they are still young. I am vigilant. I teach conflict resolution. I model conflict resolution with DH in front of them when we disagree. We all apologise to each other if we have been thoughtless. DC are encouraged and praised to be thoughtful but also to have boundaries. I model this through having my boundaries with them.

It’s interesting so many of these are older brothers. Like OP, I was a latch key kid, and lived in absolute fear of older sister. She terrified me. She was aggressive, violent and very bright, and as both our parents worked long hours, I was often home alone with her. Anything could set her off and it would quickly turn violent. If I could get out the door in time, I’d run to a neighbour, but I often wasn’t fast enough.

I think my parents found it difficult to discipline as they weren’t there when it happened. I remember developing elaborate rituals - ‘if I do X this many times, she won’t hurt me’ - and various other odd things. I’m ashamed of this, but it stopped when I was old and big enough to hit her back in my late teens. for everyone - it really does impact who you are and how you respond to people.

@Lordamighty of course, I never leave them alone together, I have to have one with me or DH at all times. We also gave DD a much bigger bedroom so she has her own space. They have monthly 1-1 days out. We encourage her to go to friends for playdates. It's exhausting but I'm very aware of it.

*I hope you are seriously considering going very low contact or even NO contact with her. Thus is not great for you and awful for your children

This is the sort of behaviour that would, surely, have led you to report her to the police if you were not related?*

I’m not speaking to her ever again. She has crossed a line. I was home with my 4 children, one who is disabled and one who is only three. And she turned up kicking the door and screaming through my letter box, she was at her car beeping the horn to embarrass me in front of my neighbours. She wanted me to call the police, I told her I was calling the police and she said go on then I will wait for them, and that if I call them they will call ss on me. She’s always bullied me and treated me awfully over the years she will blow up over the smallest things. Once I was living in her house as our mum threw me out and I ate too many packets of crisps so she pushed me so hard I slammed into the washing machine. When she had enough of me living there she threw all my clothes out onto the street and Over her balcony. I though she had grown up now in our 30s but clearly not.

@wejammin please protect your little girl, my heart sank for her reading that. She could be posting on a similar thread one day.

A girl I worked with had a brother like this. They were from a wealthy family but both seemed deeply damaged. He would call her a whore and say he hoped she got raped and murdered and was found dead in a ditch, he would also physically shove her. They were both adults, she didn't elaborate on how things were when they were growing up but I dread to think.

@Joywillcomeagain - I find it really encouraging to hear that this issue is starting to be incorporated into safeguarding training.

I don't recall physical abuse and bullying, but was sexually abused from around 8, and later raped by my brother. One of the hardest things as an adult was attending group therapy for childhood sexual abuse which was completely focused on 'big adult male abusers' - difficult to hear when your abuser was only a couple of years older and not much taller.
Interesting to hear of Mothers that ignored the abuse when told as well. I never told mine, and often wondered if she had known, or how she would've reacted if she had - it made for a very difficult relationship with her, as my brother was the golden boy who could do no wrong.

@Joywillcomeagain - really encouraging to hear that sibling abuse is starting to be incorporated into safeguarding training.

I don't recall bullying or physical abuse, but was sexually abused from about 8, and later raped by my brother who is about 18 months older than me.
It was really hard attending group therapy for adult survivors of sexual abuse that was wholly focused on 'large adult male' abusers. There was one other participant who had been abused by older stepbrothers, and another by her Mother, but there was simply no acknowledgement of anything outside the expected norm.

It was interesting to hear of Mothers being told and ignoring it. I didn't tell my parents, but often wondered if they knew/suspected, and wondered what her reaction would have been. It made my relationship with her very difficult over the years; she died 20+ years ago, but I still often wonder about it.

I’m so sorry that anyone has to go through this. You are not wrong that society seems to expect and allow sibling violence. We have never allowed it in our house and my boys (9 & 11) are both very kind and gentle.

I had an experience recently where I was completely horrified by the reaction of my ds 9’s teacher. She is fairly newly qualified so has had all the up to date training but when I approached her to explain that my ds was upset that he and his friend had been attacked in the playground by other boys (one throwing my ds’ friend over his shoulder so he landed on his head on concrete) she told me that boys will be boys and ‘that’s just typical brother behaviour’ 😡 I told it certainly wasn’t in my house.

sorry about the near-duplicate post - it didn't display the first time for some reason.

There are such horrible, sad stories in this thread to everyone who has been through this.

I agree that there are very few discussions or portrayals of this around. Normal People is a recent example but I can't think of any others except We Need To Talk About Kevin.

I'm sure you're right that there must be a lot of wilful blindness from parents on this, OP. I can't imagine much worse than recognising that one of your children is an abuser, to recognise that they're abusing your other child is so awful that I can see (while not at all condoning) why people find it literally unthinkable, particularly sexual abuse. Again, I'm not trying to excuse it - I know it might seem like I am - but saying that the urge to just pretend, even to yourself, that it isn't happening must be so strong.

To all victims of abuse on this thread, I'm so sorry💐

There is an argument the planet needs a drastic drop in numbers of humans. This thread makes an equally good argument for not having more than one child , if any.

There is a logical saying that everything a second child has is stolen from the first.

There is an illogical notion that extra children must be bred to provide 'playmates'. Possibly that is true, but only for a couple who live entirely alone on a remote barren island completely cut off from the outside world, and who decline to play with or speak to their child themselves. Even then, this thread shows the subsequent child is not guaranteed to perform to job specification.

Surplus children are also available for fostering or adoption, as mentioned elsethread by a lovely foster mother who has transformed a troubled small girl into a confident secure child about to move to her adoptive parents

My elder sister constantly bullied and intimidated me for years growing up. She is 3 years older than me and was (and still is to a certain degree), manipulative. Her favourite "sport" was to wind me up out of earshot of my parents, to the point where I would either yell at her or smack her. She would then run off to our parents crying that I'd called her a "bad name", or I'd hit her "for no reason". I would be punished for retaliating and again for "lying" when I tried to give my version of events whilst she just stood there smirking. Even though we are both now in our 50's, I still won't allow myself to be in a room on my own with her. To this day she doesn't see any harm in what she did.

Forgot to add...it was the main reason I only had 1 child.

to everyone who has shared their story on here.

Like so many others, my abusive brother was the golden child. He could do no wrong. He and my younger brother would play wrestling, and I would often be forced to join in. It usually involved them tag-teaming while I was left to fight them both. Older brother would kneel on my throat. If I told my mum I'd get told "well don't play then". If we were swimming he would swim underwater (he was brilliant at that) and pull me under so I'd be left fighting to surface and gasping for breath. He shot me in the leg with a powerful BB gun. Almost point blank range. I was a dance student and was in agony for weeks.
Then little things, like he chipped in on a new cd player for my birthday one year. Really lovely. Except he sold my old one to his mate. Told mum and was told "well he bought you a new one. Don't be so ungrateful". When he was doing his GCSEs we were expected to be quiet so he could study. When I did mine a year later, he was allowed his friends round whenever he liked and I had to try and study whilst ignoring them. When I was at college and working part time, I wasnt allowed friends round late at night if he, or my mum, had work the next day. If I had work the next day however, him and his mates could roll in steaming drunk at 2am and wake me up.
I think the sexual abuse was the tip of a very large iceberg!

We are survivors and we are fucking amazing!

I would imagine that in many cases the parents are to blame. For either turning a blind eye or abusing the DC themselves (who then learn this behaviour). In the same way as children who abuse animals are often victims of abuse themselves.

I'm the youngest of 3 sisters, and my middle sister (an adult at the time, who'd moved back home after finishing university) was nasty to me when I was a teenager (I was 7 years younger than her). My eldest sister didn't come home after uni, so wasn't living there then.

She broke a remote control, a dustpan (when it was her turn to clean out the guinea pigs and she wanted me to do it instead), and some other item over my head at various times. And often had a bullying manner towards me in general. Once she locked me out of the house with no shoes (or anything else) so I walked to my dad's house (2 miles) barefoot.

My mum separated us by sending me to live with my dad for my final year of school. She says he wouldn't take my sister instead, only me. She claims this was because he would get the Family Allowance if I went there as I was still a child, but since it was only £15 a week and he gave it to me for bus fare/pocket money, I don't think that was the reason.

So someone bullies me, and I get punished for it?

I do get on better with my sister now we are both adults, and have children. But she excuses it by saying I was looming at her. I am tall, and autistic, so it's possible I was standing closer than she felt comfortable. But she was the adult, and I certainly wasn't doing anything overtly aggressive.

To this day I've hardly spoken about the violence I was subjected to just my younger sister.
I still have scars from a fight we had in our early twenty's. She ripped my clothes and because I had to clean up the blood and change I got a disciplinary for being late to work that day but I was so exhausted I just went along with it. I never fought back.
My mother used to say to me, oh what did you to to deserve that now, since we were younger so my sister learned it was ok to hit me from a young age. Eventually it reached to beating me up.

I told my older sister once, she'd moved out when we were young being much older. She said oh well maybe you deserved it.
I remember thinking at the time how can anyone deserve so much violence they end up bleeding in their own home.
Anyway I hope things change because I'd love to talk about it and get through it but instead I'm still being told by other family members, oh can't believe you cut her off. While she's swanning around having family etc because was all behind closed doors.

Sorry for everyone else that's had this

All these stories are so triggering for me. Two older brothers who sexually abused me and got their friends to join in. Not a huge amount of physical violence but constant wind-up and needling, taking my stuff away, not allowing me access to shared items like the phone or books or stationery supplies. One brother in particular would start rumours about me and get all his friends to laugh and jeer at me in the school corridors. The other brother was always home before me and wouldn't let me in to the toilet and I sometimes weed myself on the doorstep. My mothers stock answer was "well, what were YOU doing to make him behave like that"
I became very promiscuous in my teens because I had no boundaries and had been sexually abused for years.
I am NC with both of them now. Parents are very elderly so no point in going over the past.

I'd forgotten - my sister stabbed me in the eye with a knife, just narrowly missing my eyeball - 45 years later I still have the scar and my sister still has an aggressive streak. My parents were happy as long as no one else knew what was going on - public displays of aggression were never tolerated, but in private it didn't matter. I think the benign neglect of the 70s wasn't so benign at times.