Why does society minimise sibling violence and abuse?

[TheKrakening3]

Just that really. I grew up with a physically and emotionally abusive older brother. Classic sibling abuse situation- older brother, younger sister, close in age and latch key kids.

If a boy at school had done to me what my brother would do to me, they would be expelled or at least suspended. But when I would tell teachers at school, they would just brush it off, telling me it was normal and they were sure we would be best friends when we were adults. We are NC.

I get shivers when I read the coercive control threads. I was spat on almost every day, had my food tampered with, physically blocked from going to the toilet so I had to use a container in my room, verbally abused and had my sleep controlled. He would burst in on me when I was changing, hide my books and endlessly intimidate me. It was constant. He never got bored. He had no other interests. He was always the perpetrator, I was always the victim. Me being scared and miserable made him so happy.

And yet when I told people at the time, it was dismissed. I was a sensitive sally who couldn’t handle a bit of normal sibling rough and tumble. All siblings fight! Don’t ya know! It’s normal. They would then regale me with tales of their fights with their siblings and invariably finish off with saying how they fought like cats and dogs but love each other and have each other’s backs.

My parents were absolutely useless- “you 2 are old enough to sort this out yourselves” was their refrain. I can on some level understand the denial and delusion of parents in this situation as they love all their children. I read threads about desperate parents who have just been hit by their teenagers. It usually comes out that the teenager has been terrorising younger siblings for years but that was not a big issue in the parent’s eyes until they themselves got hit. I’m not talking about toddlers and very young children here- why is a nearly fully grown teenage boy hitting a smaller child not an issue just because they are siblings in the same home?

Parents aside though, why does society not treat sibling abuse like other abuse? For those in mandatory reporting and safeguarding roles, do you take it seriously? Or is it just a family matter, like DV between adults used to be?

So that’s my rather incoherent rant. I would be interested to hear from other posters who had violent siblings. Who helped you? Who believed you? I’m just trying to get my jumbled thoughts together about this.

Firstly I want to say how sorry I am to read these stories of abuse and neglect.

I am also the younger female sibling with an older brother. I am now nc with him after the last act of violence a few years ago in our 40s. My father was fierce and his reaction to his bullying was to hit my brother hard. After one particular incident, I now realise she stopped telling him. We were very very young kids at the time. Without the protection of my father (not that I agree with the punishments he meted out), my brother was allowed to mercilessly abuse me.

I had no bodily autonomy, was also restrained, thrown around like a rag doll and much more. He took pleasure in throwing me on the floor face down and pin me down so I struggled to breathe. As we now know, actually could have killed me. The difference between you and I was the majority of the time, my mother was in the house. This mostly happened in the living room whilst she was in the kitchen.

When I went NC with him, my mother bemoaned that she wanted us to all get along. I told her about the sexual stuff he did to me. In hindsight she actually knew. It was non touching. But designed to dehumanise me in every way. I was left in no uncertain way to believe I would never be appealing to any boy and I wholeheartedly believed him. I was so embarrassed of my beautiful, perfect body. Instead I was a girl but something less than that. A piece of shit. A boy without a penis when the penis was all in the household.

After the double take of telling my mother what had happened and how he treated me, she denied it. Then continued that he didn’t bully me, I bullied him. Absolute denial her golden child son could be any less than perfect. It was clear, anything he did to me was my fault. And actually, he didn’t do it. It was me.

The only time I could ever escape him was when my mother was out. I could run to the neighbour. She didn’t understand the severity or implication of what happened. When my mother was home, how could I run to the neighbour? Such was my need to feel loved, not rejected, I protected her. This is undoubtedly why I told no one of my suffering.

I forgot the . Now I’m in bits. 😭

@Mummyoflittledragon, I am sorry that happened to you. Especially with your mum in the house who was supposed to protect you. I understand the awful and exhausting frustration of not being safe in your own home and the adults around you ignoring or minimising the abuse.

@BoomBoomsCousin

I had a violent brother. He wasn't nearly as abusive as yours, OP but I would have ha a happier childhood without him. I think parents don't know how to handle it, especially once they hit teen years, and there is no real support or guidance.

Maybe they realise, subconsciously, that if they recognize it they are stuck in an untenable position. The only way to actually protect those siblings is to separate or have 24 hour supervision. Everything else is a risk for the victim. Very few parents are in a position to do that. So they ignore and hope maturity will calm things down.

There is something to this. If parents accept that one of their children is abusive, they will have to do something about it. And that is a can of worms that might involve expensive therapy, telling people outside the home and quitting jobs to protect children at home. For my parents, as long as my brother wasn’t causing them embarrassment outside of the home, he could have free reign and they could focus on their business.

Years ago, I read about a new family therapy programme to manage situations of sibling sexual abuse . It was designed to keep the children together in the family home. I can’t imagine how this could be anything other than a massive fu gaslighting session for the victim. In what other circumstance would a victim have to live with and share intimate spaces with their rapist? But it just goes to show that when the abuser is a sibling, the victim will be treating completely differently than if the abuser was someone else.

I am so sorry to read some of the awful situations people on this thread have been through.
Did anyone watch Normal People recently? This reminded me of Marianne’s relationship with her brother. The dad (deceased) had been abusive towards the mum and the brother had that as learned behaviour towards Marianne. He’s cruel to her, and ultimately ends up breaking her nose. Other characters outside the family describe him as a “great guy”. The mum sees things that go on, but presumably due to her own abuse she buries her head in the sand at first and eventually sides with the brother, cutting ties with Marianne. It isn’t necessarily the main story line throughout, but it’s always there as an undercurrent and niggling at Marianne.
Sorry to bring fictional characters into it when people are opening up and sharing their real life experiences, but it’s a representation of what you are talking about.

YANBU
I'm an only child, and I used to be horrified at some of the behaviour I saw around friend's houses. One friend's brother pinned her to the ground and trailed out chunks of her hair, another kicked her door down because she had something he wanted. These were nice MC kids and the parents seemed to pretend it wasn't happening and siblings fight. I couldn't imagine living in a home where it was OK for anyone to pin me down and scream in my face for any reason.

It's 100% down to the parents though, at some point they've seen one child lay violent hands on the other and have let it go. There's no excuse for it either, I know plenty of big families full of energetic boys who would have been absolutely dead if they'd done this sort of thing to their younger siblings

I am so sorry you had to live with this op. Your parents failed you on many levels.

My sister was older than me, and she bullied me dreadfully. I can't get past it. She is almost 40, and I still can't forgive her. I was spat on, punched, had my head banged repeatedly against the walls when we were left alone, locked in the garden for hours while she had friends over (parents out), humiliated in school... it goes on).

I wouldn't forgive my school bully. Why should I "get over it" because she is family? We're pretty much NC.
Because of my experiences, I vowed to have an only child.

I'm 50 and had therapy due to the trauma of my eldest brother's abuse of me last year. My mum didn't know too much of what was happening as we were too scared to tell her. She now knows and we're all no contact with the arsehole.

To add: we also had a brother, but 10 years older- left home when I was around 11. My sister and I were quite close in age. He left us alone, mostly. So I don't think it was learned behaviour from him. I think it's more common from siblings closer in age than those with big gaps- parents more likely to intervene if a teenager is bullying a toddler, I think.

Some of these events are absolutely horrifying. I am so sorry everyone had to endure these things.

I have not experienced the sibling abuse described but my SIL did, her parents left the two of them alone every Friday and Saturday night to go to the pub knowing full well her older sister would traumatise her every single time. I couldn't get my head round these parents leaving their children at home. As my SIL got older she got strong enough to fight back, but that meant full on fights. Shocking.

With my own sons I refused to let them treat each other appallingly, whether physically or emotionally but I do see it with other people. I remember seeing a boy drag his sister by the hair in the school playground, his Mum said oh she gives as good as she gets. He was 10, she was 8.

In school we teach children not to put their hands on someone else without their permission. This goes for hugging when one person clearly doesn't want it or pushing someone. We teach about boundaries, communicating your feelings. It is hopefully a start.

Well I am truly sorry to hear some of these terrible stories.As an only child I imagined any siblings would have been my best friend! Little wonder that many adult children are NC with their families! It is shocking that some of this type of bullying/abuse is still going on now.One of my friends had a brother who was abusive as well.She is not keen on him and doesnt have any contact at all .

@LittleRa

I am so sorry to read some of the awful situations people on this thread have been through. Did anyone watch Normal People recently? This reminded me of Marianne’s relationship with her brother. The dad (deceased) had been abusive towards the mum and the brother had that as learned behaviour towards Marianne. He’s cruel to her, and ultimately ends up breaking her nose. Other characters outside the family describe him as a “great guy”. The mum sees things that go on, but presumably due to her own abuse she buries her head in the sand at first and eventually sides with the brother, cutting ties with Marianne. It isn’t necessarily the main story line throughout, but it’s always there as an undercurrent and niggling at Marianne. Sorry to bring fictional characters into it when people are opening up and sharing their real life experiences, but it’s a representation of what you are talking about.

I will have to watch this. I have to say in my case, there has never been violence or abuse between my parents or even my grandparents. My brother was just always off, even as a very small child. I don’t know why he was like that. My parents did not help with their parenting which basically ended when we were 11 and 12 as they got absorbed in their business. Up until then, their parenting was fairly normal for the 80s. No abuse, a bit authoritarian but nothing to explain why my brother was the way he was. I guess they just didn’t have the tools to deal with him and I absorbed the brunt of him out of their sight and mind.

@BeatrixPottersAlterEgo

YANBU I'm an only child, and I used to be horrified at some of the behaviour I saw around friend's houses. One friend's brother pinned her to the ground and trailed out chunks of her hair, another kicked her door down because she had something he wanted. These were nice MC kids and the parents seemed to pretend it wasn't happening and siblings fight. I couldn't imagine living in a home where it was OK for anyone to pin me down and scream in my face for any reason.

It's 100% down to the parents though, at some point they've seen one child lay violent hands on the other and have let it go. There's no excuse for it either, I know plenty of big families full of energetic boys who would have been absolutely dead if they'd done this sort of thing to their younger siblings

My brother would always time a big assault on me when I had a new friend over. Generally a body slam into the ground or dragging me down hallways. I think he thought that if they laughed at me getting hurt or gave some sort of tacit approval, he could justify his abuse better. But I picked good friends. None of them ever laughed and they were always horrified. I am forever grateful to them as I had been gaslit so badly by the adults around me that his treatment of me was par for the course of being a little sister.

One of of dd's friends has an abusive older brother. He's five years older and behaves despicably towards his sister, always has done. The parents know this, moan about it but cover up the extent of the abuse. The girl has shown bruises to dd. He breaks her stuff on purpose, he has no respect for her privacy. He's extremely attention seeking.

I have the feeling that the parents are helpless and don't know how to handle hime as they're caught in some very unhealthy family dynamics.

Weirdly the dd's friend seems outwardly very confident, even bossy. It isn't obvious that her brother physically and emotionally abuses her.

This subject makes my blood boil. My brother is 3 years older & a narcissistic bully. He bullied me constantly as a child, he was also the neighbourhood & school bully, everyone knew who he was. He was big & strong & violent, not great to live with as a young girl.
Parents constantly minimise sibling violence, I see it on here all the time, there is no excuse for it. I have 2 dc, same age difference as me & bully brother, never any hitting allowed, they get on really well unlike me & my brother.
Like a previous poster, I have never met a bully I didn’t want to stand up to, I’ve had plenty of practice.

@AlwaysAnotherName

My sister was older than me, and she bullied me dreadfully. I can't get past it. She is almost 40, and I still can't forgive her. I was spat on, punched, had my head banged repeatedly against the walls when we were left alone, locked in the garden for hours while she had friends over (parents out), humiliated in school... it goes on).

I wouldn't forgive my school bully. Why should I "get over it" because she is family? We're pretty much NC.
Because of my experiences, I vowed to have an only child.

I will never forgive my brother. He isn’t in my life and is a sad middle aged man. His three long term relationships all ended around the two year mark when the sensible women ditched him.

It is interesting how it affects life choices. I chose to have 3 children and would generally consider myself to be quite a free range parent. Except with conflicts and fighting, I probably overparent but there is no way I will be making the mistakes of my parents.

I'm so sorry to all of you who have suffered from sibling abuse, it's just horrific.  There really should be more awareness - and action by the authorities.

@MySarong please report it. You need to help this poor girl.

@Lordamighty

This subject makes my blood boil. My brother is 3 years older & a narcissistic bully. He bullied me constantly as a child, he was also the neighbourhood & school bully, everyone knew who he was. He was big & strong & violent, not great to live with as a young girl. Parents constantly minimise sibling violence, I see it on here all the time, there is no excuse for it. I have 2 dc, same age difference as me & bully brother, never any hitting allowed, they get on really well unlike me & my brother. Like a previous poster, I have never met a bully I didn’t want to stand up to, I’ve had plenty of practice.

I agree. I am onto any physical violence between my kids immediately. And one advantage of growing up with my brother is that I have boundaries of steel as an adult. I can spot a bad guy almost immediately. I spot the tricky ones too- the nice guy bad guy. I know for some abused kids it can have the opposite affect and result in them having low self esteem and picking the wrong blokes but for me, I know all the tricks and manipulations of these men and don’t let them anywhere near me.

I don’t understand why parents allow ‘play fighting’ and thus condone violence. It’s not inevitable. There is a difference between rough and tumble playing and fighting where there is a size or power imbalance.

Siblings squabble but most reasonable parents intervene and stop it before it escalates.

Same situation here.
I am a twin with a boy.
We used to get home from school and he'd lock me outside when I was desperate for the toilet so I'd wee myself, I was 14.
He had a best friend and they used to bully me together.
Follow me home from school shouting that I'm a fat bitch, throw things at me, spit at me.
My Mom let that friend come into our house and sit at our dinner table with us, knowing that not a few hours earlier they were abusing me.
Start rumours about me at school.
Lie to family about me to get me in trouble.
Steal from me.
Pretend to be friendly for a bit so I'd let my guard down and then be an absolute arsehole again.
I have some good memories of him, but so, so, so many of the bad jokes outweigh them.
I went no contact at 18.
He doesn't know me, or my husband, or my children.
I saw him at a family birthday party about 6 years ago, he just kept referring to me as the fat one.
My life is considerably better than his because hes made bad choices and alienated almost everyone (except our dad or stands by his actions completely).
I don't know what's wrong with him, but he's just not normal.

It's horrible because its means your home isnt a safe place. Neither was school.
It was the bully that I could never escape.

OP and everyone else who suffered.

I also was abused by an older sibling. My home life was a mess anyway, but he was a terrifying part of it. No contact since I reached adulthood.

I feel physically ill when he is mentioned or a random memory of him pops into my head. There is definitely some degree of PTSD still lingering.

@PrincessPain

Same situation here. I am a twin with a boy. We used to get home from school and he'd lock me outside when I was desperate for the toilet so I'd wee myself, I was 14. He had a best friend and they used to bully me together. Follow me home from school shouting that I'm a fat bitch, throw things at me, spit at me. My Mom let that friend come into our house and sit at our dinner table with us, knowing that not a few hours earlier they were abusing me. Start rumours about me at school. Lie to family about me to get me in trouble. Steal from me. Pretend to be friendly for a bit so I'd let my guard down and then be an absolute arsehole again. I have some good memories of him, but so, so, so many of the bad jokes outweigh them. I went no contact at 18. He doesn't know me, or my husband, or my children. I saw him at a family birthday party about 6 years ago, he just kept referring to me as the fat one. My life is considerably better than his because hes made bad choices and alienated almost everyone (except our dad or stands by his actions completely). I don't know what's wrong with him, but he's just not normal.

That is terrible. My brother was never able to reel in others to join in my abuse, thank goodness. My brother and I are not twins, but as he repeated a grade, he was always in my year at school. So same school, same sports house, same school camps, same groups when alphabetically divided. I guess you had this no escape situation too.

I'm sorry to hear of what everyone has been through. I work in a children's services department (not frontline) and tbh I haven't heard this discussed much. I'm going to ask our child protection coordinator about how we handle it.