Why does society minimise sibling violence and abuse?

[TheKrakening3]

Just that really. I grew up with a physically and emotionally abusive older brother. Classic sibling abuse situation- older brother, younger sister, close in age and latch key kids.

If a boy at school had done to me what my brother would do to me, they would be expelled or at least suspended. But when I would tell teachers at school, they would just brush it off, telling me it was normal and they were sure we would be best friends when we were adults. We are NC.

I get shivers when I read the coercive control threads. I was spat on almost every day, had my food tampered with, physically blocked from going to the toilet so I had to use a container in my room, verbally abused and had my sleep controlled. He would burst in on me when I was changing, hide my books and endlessly intimidate me. It was constant. He never got bored. He had no other interests. He was always the perpetrator, I was always the victim. Me being scared and miserable made him so happy.

And yet when I told people at the time, it was dismissed. I was a sensitive sally who couldn’t handle a bit of normal sibling rough and tumble. All siblings fight! Don’t ya know! It’s normal. They would then regale me with tales of their fights with their siblings and invariably finish off with saying how they fought like cats and dogs but love each other and have each other’s backs.

My parents were absolutely useless- “you 2 are old enough to sort this out yourselves” was their refrain. I can on some level understand the denial and delusion of parents in this situation as they love all their children. I read threads about desperate parents who have just been hit by their teenagers. It usually comes out that the teenager has been terrorising younger siblings for years but that was not a big issue in the parent’s eyes until they themselves got hit. I’m not talking about toddlers and very young children here- why is a nearly fully grown teenage boy hitting a smaller child not an issue just because they are siblings in the same home?

Parents aside though, why does society not treat sibling abuse like other abuse? For those in mandatory reporting and safeguarding roles, do you take it seriously? Or is it just a family matter, like DV between adults used to be?

So that’s my rather incoherent rant. I would be interested to hear from other posters who had violent siblings. Who helped you? Who believed you? I’m just trying to get my jumbled thoughts together about this.

Just wanted to express my sympathy to you. I've had a terrible relationship with my brother and got sick of the inevitable "I'm like that with my brother but we go to the pub now" . "Just wait until X age- you'll be as thick as thieves."

My story isnt as bad but continual daily harrassment including no privacy in my room, not letting me go to the toilet, dead legs, wrestling, verbal cruelty.

I wouldn't say it was abuse in my case but it was certainly bullying. I think the lack of real malice is the difference. In the last 5 years I've picked up an increase in stories and research of this which I've found relieving.

No our relationship didnt improve as he grew up, I dont even have his phone number. I'd like to find every dickhead who minimised how horrendous it was to live at home with someone who tortured you and tell them it was not ok.

Sorry to hear about this, OP

I don't really have much to comment except I understand, I really do. I also have a brother who was abusive when we were teenagers. He was a year younger than me but much bigger than me. He intimidated me a lot, would get right in my face towering over me and verbally abuse me. Often physically harmed me. It was all ignored by our parents and we would just be told to ''stop messing about''. He once hurt me so much I was crying in my room in pain but was told I was just being dramatic and we need to ''stop arguing about silly things'' (I was in the shower and he was pissed off because he wanted to go first so attacked me with a heavy object when I got out of the shower, my parents ignored the bruises). We are now adults in our twenties and he is still as bad from what I know. Our younger sister told me he pushed her and threatened to ''smash'' her face in a few months ago due to a disagreement with another family member which had nothing to do with him.

Its absolutely not normal behaviour but you're right, it is often swept under the carpet when it is a sibling who is behaving like that. I tried telling a few people, mainly other family members who didn't live with us but it was all just laughed off and seen as typical sibling rivalry because ''you love him really, he's your brother''. Goes without saying I moved out as soon as I possibly could and I no longer speak to him and neither does our sister. I will always remember how my parents didn't protect me. He is still their golden boy and they don't think he can do any wrong.

I'm glad you no longer speak to your brother, OP. And I'm sorry nobody listened to you and took you seriously.

@GloGirl

Just wanted to express my sympathy to you. I've had a terrible relationship with my brother and got sick of the inevitable "I'm like that with my brother but we go to the pub now" . "Just wait until X age- you'll be as thick as thieves."

My story isnt as bad but continual daily harrassment including no privacy in my room, not letting me go to the toilet, dead legs, wrestling, verbal cruelty.

I wouldn't say it was abuse in my case but it was certainly bullying. I think the lack of real malice is the difference. In the last 5 years I've picked up an increase in stories and research of this which I've found relieving.

No our relationship didnt improve as he grew up, I dont even have his phone number. I'd like to find every dickhead who minimised how horrendous it was to live at home with someone who tortured you and tell them it was not ok.

Yes, the minimisation from others who say you will be besties one day is dreadful.

And the toilet control thing- I think this is the 3rd time it has come up in this thread. I had no idea it was so common and always believed it was just a special tactic of my brother.

Similar here. Interesting, I had forgotten a lot of it. My mum was hopeless, and I've tended to remember things to do with her more. She hasn't changed, still hopeless. She wasn't deliberately abusive, but she's narcissistic so doesn't really take anyone else's experience seriously.

My brother was awful, shot at me with an air rifle, chinese burns, tickling till I couldn't breathe and felt sick, locking me in my room. But I don't think it was calculated and deliberate as such. I think he was reacting to how things were with my mother. He was at boarding school a lot, and got better when he was older. He was pretty much absent for a long time, and in the last ten to fifteen years has had a lot of therapy and seems much better. He's almost totally turned himself around in terms of understanding human nature, and being a better human being. I keep a wary eye out for his second wife, just checking she's ok.

Children arguing with their siblings is quite healthy. If they're close in age and have an equal footing it gives them a chance to learn how to navigate what they want, communication skills and learn empathy for others.
If parents jump in at the first sign of trouble, children cannot learn these skills and will just assume they need rescuing.
The trouble comes when parents don't risk assess the situation and do not jump in at all.
It is utterly heartbreaking having your children hurt and in pain/fear because of... your other child and this is likely to be part of the reason why parents struggle to acknowledge the difference between general arguments and something more sinister.
Teaching children that when they say no, it means no should always extend to siblings too.
Advocating for all our children and protecting them should definitely be paramount.

@MySarong that's horrific about your daughter's friend, please thinking about making a report to the local authority or the safeguarding lead at school.

@PrincessPain

Same situation here. I am a twin with a boy. We used to get home from school and he'd lock me outside when I was desperate for the toilet so I'd wee myself, I was 14. He had a best friend and they used to bully me together. Follow me home from school shouting that I'm a fat bitch, throw things at me, spit at me. My Mom let that friend come into our house and sit at our dinner table with us, knowing that not a few hours earlier they were abusing me. Start rumours about me at school. Lie to family about me to get me in trouble. Steal from me. Pretend to be friendly for a bit so I'd let my guard down and then be an absolute arsehole again. I have some good memories of him, but so, so, so many of the bad jokes outweigh them. I went no contact at 18. He doesn't know me, or my husband, or my children. I saw him at a family birthday party about 6 years ago, he just kept referring to me as the fat one. My life is considerably better than his because hes made bad choices and alienated almost everyone (except our dad or stands by his actions completely). I don't know what's wrong with him, but he's just not normal.

I relate to all of this and to what many of the others have posted. My brother would often engage others to join in with him and often my mother would join in also. He stole my diary in secondary school and passed it around the entire school which was a dreadfully humiliating experience. When I got a job he would steal all my money from me and boast about to my mother who again joined in and laughed and called me ‘sensitive’ when I got distressed. He poisoned the well of every friendship I ever tried to make well into adult hood before I went nc. He once came up behind me when I was leaving a bar holding hands with my boyfriend and knocked me to the ground by hitting me in the head with a plank of wood. My bf did nothing really we stayed together for about a year after that - I don’t see him anymore but he’s still friends with my brother and goes out drinking with him. My brother treated me in a way you wouldn’t allow someone to treat a dog and everyone excused and minimised it...’as bad as each other’.....’6 of one half a dozen of the other’ ...

@missymousey

I'm sorry to hear of what everyone has been through. I work in a children's services department (not frontline) and tbh I haven't heard this discussed much. I'm going to ask our child protection coordinator about how we handle it.

That is great to hear. A cliche I know but if this thread could help one kid... etc. It is tricky to identify the sibling abuse. The parents aren’t going to tell you, the abuser won’t tell you and the abused child probably has been gaslit to fucking kingdom come that it is not a bring deal and to stop whinging. It would have to be a well trained social worker who did anything other than dismiss a child saying that their older sibling is mean.

Haven’t read the whole thread but 100% agree. DB1 and I are very close in age. I’m the older one and it seemed he was born jealous of me. From about mid primary school he started becoming violent towards me. It was always directed at me. He ruined my childhood.

Everybody played it down like it was normal sibling rivalry but I was actually a victim of domestic violence. My parents used to play it down because secretly I don’t think they wanted to believe it or knew how to handle it. They said things like ‘sort it out’ or ‘you’re as bad as each other’ which was not true. He would break my stuff, steal from me. He once even once hid letters from prospective employers offering me intern jobs when I was a teen just to spite me.

My parents did shout sometimes but they never took it really seriously until he got bigger and started becoming aggressive towards them.

We’re NC and although I love my parents, our relationship is permanently damaged as I massively resent them for allowing me to be terrorised in my own home. I never felt safe. I used to wish he’d get run over so I could have peace. Although his behaviour towards my siblings was never as bad as with me, they despised him too.

No one tells an abused wife to stay with her abuser but children are expected to just get on with it.
This is a very specific incident which is very outing, as a nightmare teenager my bully brother shot someone with an air rifle & nearly got a youth custody sentence. My DM was beside herself, the shame, what will the neighbours think but after a while the narrative changed. She actually blamed the victim, if he hadn’t been messing around bully brother wouldn’t have shot him, that’s the kind of thing I was dealing with.

I suspect a lot of violent men started off abusing their siblings first.

I feel quite sick reading this thread.

to all survivors of abuse.

Why do parents turn a blind eye? In my dd's friend's case, the parents adore their kids individually, they have a lovely lifestyle, good professions, no money issues, the kids are doted on and the parents and kids are ambitious and high-achieving very competitive.

But they are caught up in an abusive home where the son dictates the toxic family dynamic with his entitled and cruel behaviour. The parents remain passive and helpless.

DH was bullied awfully by his 6 year older brother. In the scheme of things, his brother is actually a very small and weedy man but 6 years gives a huge physical advantage in children.

When DH hit puberty and his brother could no longer physically bully him, it became more mental, belittling him etc. We are nc now and DHs mum is finally realising how unpleasant her oldest son is.

Pressed submit too early.

I was much more fortunate in that I have a brother 7 years older but although he would wind me up, a lot, and as a hormonal teen, he could be quite mean, he was also the first one there to pick me up, help me do stuff and would never have let anyone else hurt me.

I can relate to this. I was abused by my sister my entire life up until I left home. Everything was brushed off even though she was 5 years older then me and much larger. Now I've been able to move on with my life and she still lives at home, and my mum is terrified of her as shes turned all of her anger and aggression onto her. I know she regrets now not stamping it out when sister was younger, but it's hard for me to have any sympathy when I think of how miserable my childhood was.

My situation was nowhere near as bad as many mentioned here but affected my childhood.

I don't remember any physical abuse but my DSis and I were physically frightened of him because he was stronger and unpredictable. I used to dread my parents going out when we were older because of the bullying.

Mostly it was about verbal put downs which my DM didn't deal with effectively, although she did try. He's extremely quick witted but it's always directed at someone else. It affected my confidence for years, I found it hard to speak out because I always expected to be ridiculed.

He's done extremely well for himself in business presumably because he's a sociopath and his multi millions have made him believe that he's better than everyone else as he's always thought.

Inside, I still think he's insecure because he knows our parents prefer my company because I'm kind and thoughtful to them. On one hand, he says he cares about them more than the rest of us and makes proclamations e.g. about lock down as though he's the prime minister. On the other hand, he ridicules them both and this particularly affects my DF who is a sensitive, dear kind man.

It's all quite sad really. But this thread has made me really remember that it wasnt about normal sibling rivalry; he just isn't a nice person and the fact that I have never been invited to his mansion is due to no failing of mine.

That's awful, OP. I'm not very clued up on this particular issue as I'm an only child, but I had an abusive father and teachers, the police and my own mother turned a blind eye so I can relate somewhat.
It sounds to me that although your brother was the perpetrator, your parents did not do enough to safeguard you and as the adults they should have taken a hold of the situation, which is unforgivable.
I'm sorry I don't have any advice myself but I hope you can work through these issues and compartmentalise it in whatever way makes it more bearable for you to move forward. ♥

I also wonder why some parents allow / encourage "play fighting". There was 6 of us siblings growing up and mum and dad didn't know or care about a lot of the daily aggression and violence that went on. Mind you mum and dad used physical discipline against us so I think we all thought being violent to another person was normal and acceptable.

As an adult I realised how wrong it had all been. I vowed my kids would never be allowed to be spiteful or aggressive to each other. I've raised 3 boys with no "play fighting" or mickey taking / spiteful put downs allowed. Yes they argued sometimes but I always kept a close eye on it ready to step in the moment it got too heated. As adults they are very supportive to each other and get along great.

There is a lot of nonsense talked about "play fighting" being important for boys development. I dont know where that crap came from but I was never having any of it in my house. Why get kids physically wound up and encourage them to potentially hurt each other?? Why not encourage gentleness and kindness instead? Maybe some parents associate that with weakness.

I often thought that in my situation my mother turned a blind eye in order to placate my brother and other people joined in with him for the same reason.
So in essence....they allowed and condoned me being scapegoated as a way of trying to contain his violence. If it was focussed on me then it would be more manageable.
Exactly like you op when I withdrew myself he escalated his behaviour towards others and I’m supposed to offer them my sympathy. I told my mother in no uncertain terms that I didn’t want to hear it. That she’s enabled it for years while it suited her.
My brother is not a successful man in life. He’s a pitiful drunk who’s been a shameful husband and father. He is Still incredibly jealous of me and has amounted to nothing.

I'm reading all of this with such sadness for your lost childhoods, but also interest to see how it felt for you all. My oldest son has 'high functioning' (I hate the term but it means people understand his presentation a bit) autism, and lacks impulse control and social skills. He is 2 years older than his younger sister. I have to constantly monitor and intervene with his behaviours towards her, sometimes they get on nicely but usually he is irritated by her noise (she is constantly singing and whittering) and he can become agressive. He also steals her things and jumps out at her behind doors.
It is so difficult to manage but I owe it to my daughter.
Lockdown has both strengthened their relationship but increased the incidents. They are much kinder to each other in other people's company.

I was the eldest (18 months older) in my sibling relationship. I think it was instigated by both of us as young children. It was never dealt with at this stage though. Shrugged off as sibling behaviour.

It escalated in our teens and it became one way in terms of violence as he got taller and stronger. He also started hitting our mum. It was a truly miserable way to live. I went NC after being attacked on my birthday at 25. My mum told me I had provoked my 23 year old brother into attacking me because I didn't follow his instruction. That was the walking away moment for me.

I do not tolerate any violence between my own DC. At the moment, they are getting along very well but they are still young. I am vigilant. I teach conflict resolution. I model conflict resolution with DH in front of them when we disagree. We all apologise to each other if we have been thoughtless. DC are encouraged and praised to be thoughtful but also to have boundaries. I model this through having my boundaries with them.

My friend (RIP) had a terrible time psychologically as a child.

Her brother was educated at a private school while she wasn’t.

She had to do chores at the weekend, while her brother could amuse himself, and he would mess things up again so she got a telling off - she had a keep the bathroom clean and polish the bathroom tiles and he would then smear toothpaste on them (or worse) and taunt her.

My friend was always asking me to come round her house, as a child, as things were “calmer” while I was there, and my Mum recently admitted that she felt that there were a lot of things not right and didn’t want me going there in case I became a victim too.

@wejammin I realise it must be difficult for you but this is exactly the kind of behaviour we are all describing, your poor dd. Imagine not being able to sing & witter in your own home, having your things stolen, having someone trying to scare you. Of course things are better in company, there are no witnesses.
I wouldn’t be leaving my DD alone with him.

In a work capacity I was once involved with a family like this. The bullied child became nocturnal because of fear of sleeping when the sibling was at home, so missed school to sleep while the sibling was at school. If a step parents had been the perpetrator, social services would have taken the case seriously. It really bothers me years later that they wouldn't, it wasn't deemed serious enough to separate the family. I don't know the conclusion, I got a bad infection and the case was passed on to a colleague. She was a good colleague and I hope that she was able to get the parents to understand, but I think they were afraid of their own child. Sibling conflict isn't high on the agenda at work at all.

My mum had a no violence rule. She was a childminder, plus we had neighborhood children round at the weekend, and we all played in each others gardens. She told me and my brother not to visit a certain family. As I got older she explained that the two brothers had been round ours, and the big one had hurt the small one deliberately in our garden or house, so my mum told him off. The boys' mum confronted my mum about telling off her child. My mum stood her ground that violence isn't allowed in our house, so their mum wouldn't let them round. So my mum told us not to go round theirs, and we only played in the street or in a mutual neighbours garden.
My big brother is the strongest and gentlest person I know. I think mum made good decisions.