to feel bad about not acknowledging the George Floyd murder to my employee this morning?

[user47000000000]

One of the girls who works for me happens to be black. I happen to be white. This is only relevant in context of this situation.

We have a great professional relationship and whilst we aren't friends outside work I know I have been a support to her with some personal things and with her professional development.

This morning I asked how her wkend was and she was very flat. I sensed something was wrong and asked her if she was alright, again she was flat and said she didn't really do anything. Her DH is a frontline worker and we have talked lots about her anxieties with this and how she finds it hard to relax so I thought "she clearly doesn't want to talk to me but is clearly not happy" so I said "well I hope you managed to get some down time to relax" to which she replied "well its hard to do that with everything that's been going on this weekend in the world".

I then twigged.

We had a very brief, awkward moment and then just talked about work. She didn't address it directly and neither did I.

At the end of the call I said "Look, I'm sorry if I was insensitive earlier". and she said "don't worry, everyone's the same".

I feel awful as I have obviously been outraged, saddened, angry about everything that's happened and have thought about it loads, what I can do, whether I'm raising my children in a way which fights injustice etc etc but I didn't think to mention it this morning. so is this white privilege? I feel awful.

To be honest I find it mind-boggling that anyone could see what is happening in the US and think that it doesn't affect us, or fail to reflect on our own society and communities and see what we can learn, or at the very least consider our own privileges and unconscious biases and wonder how and why America got to where it is, and to vow to do better for our own communities and future generations.

She doesn't sound very nice, to be quite honest. Why eye-roll and huff rather than discuss calmly and clearly?

Hey come on folks,Every life matters.

No, please, go on.

I got into an argument with a friend who is black, over white privilage, I wish I'd kept my mouth shut, no way was she going to see things any differently, such a shame, been friends for years, I hope she gets it, because I got her point, even though I didn't agree.

I got bad news for you.

That black friend you claim to have? You're not her friend.

Surely if you are black what is happening in the US will affect you. Perhaps it will happen here in the UK? What are British whites taking from all this and will it change the way my friends, colleagues, neighbours see me? will they see an opportunity to start to harass us ? Will the uk police become more heavy handed? Are my children safe here? These are all valid questions and worries.
On MN alone, many still deny there is any racism in the UK, there are loads in the US who still despite the ongoing killings of blacks continue to argue that the killings are anything to do with racism. On MN I’ve seen a poster who said the same thing.
Many blacks in the UK are very afraid and for good reason.

I think @Devlesko is coming at it from the perspective of a minority who is white but experiences the prejudices associated with being the minority

That’s what I get from her posts anyway

Look, individuals and the black community are living through a time where our fucking gvt appointed an advisor who was supporting white supremacist theories, they have seen joggers shot and a man murdered by a smirking cop. In both those cases the initial reaction of the establishment was inadequate, dismissive and victim blaming. This is in a country that Because Brexit, we will have to cosy up to. Individuals and a community disproportionately affected by COVID 19. A community that had watched the Gvt Windrush deportations and then Priti Patel and the anti-immigrant stuff.

Can people really not imagine how some people might be feeling disaffected, distressed, angry, hurt?

How dare people dismiss the OP’s colleague as ‘sensitive’ and make glib non/comparisons?

I got into an argument with a friend who is black, over white privilage, I wish I'd kept my mouth shut, no way was she going to see things any differently, such a shame, been friends for years, I hope she gets it, because I got her point, even though I didn't agree.

Oh, dear.

What I'm trying to say it's words that can get you into such much trouble

It's not the words if you speak your mind. It's your thoughts.

I think@Devlesko is coming at it from the perspective of a minority who is white but experiences the prejudices associated with being the minority

Sure, there are "degrees" of white privilege. It's still privilege. It's still not DWB or WWB or SAHWTVWB (sitting at home watching tv whilst black).

The ultimate white privilege is to be so damn privileged that you genuinely think you have the same structural and social impediments as a black person in this society and to then debate that with a black "friend". My stars.

Does she tiptoe round you every time a white woman is murdered?
Disgraceful comment.

No, I meant the friend was unable to see other races who have experienced exactly the same and has no sympathy for the plight of others who may be white experiencing the same as Black people have throughout history.
It's a shame because i have no problem in seeing that now short term "Black lives matter" is an anti racist campaign and important to get the point across.
In general though, it isn't a black/white issue. Otherwise no other group can move forward in tackling racism.
Not all white people are able to be "white privilged" unless you feel the racism of these people don't matter.

what privileges do white Roma have across Europe, including the Uk.
We aren't forcibly sterilised here, thank God. our children are generally safe here.
have you seen the white children beaten in Hungary for playing just outside their allocated space, during the pandemic.
Please open your eyes and see that racism isn't a black issue on it's own.
White against white racism should not be tolerated the same as Black/white.
I speak for Roma as i'm a Roma activist, I don't think we are more important than Black people, we all matter the same.

@Devlesko

what privileges do white Roma have across Europe, including the Uk. We aren't forcibly sterilised here, thank God. our children are generally safe here. have you seen the white children beaten in Hungary for playing just outside their allocated space, during the pandemic. Please open your eyes and see that racism isn't a black issue on it's own. White against white racism should not be tolerated the same as Black/white. I speak for Roma as i'm a Roma activist, I don't think we are more important than Black people, we all matter the same.

Not everything has to be about travellers. And yes, white Roma still have white privilege.

Having white privilege does not mean your life is easy, but it does mean your skin colour is not one of the things making it harder.

@Iwalkinmyclothing

Having white privilege does not mean your life is easy, but it does mean your skin colour is not one of the things making it harder.

Very neat summing up, thnk you

Not everything has to be about travellers. And yes, white Roma still have white privilege

I'd be interested in your explanation here. Are you saying that racism is acceptable if you aren't Black? That white people from an ethnic minority people experiencing racism are privileged because they aren't Black and receiving the same racism.

I hate racism in any form at any level, but labelling people by colour doesn't really help to eradicate racism, or even provide understanding. it just continues to encourage division.
There aren't many Black Roma, most are of Asian descent, but the ones I know have experienced racism for their race not their colour. Although, I'm sure if these people were taken from their Roma communities into the gauga community they would be abused due to the colour of their skin.

@Devlesko

Not everything has to be about travellers. And yes, white Roma still have white privilege

I'd be interested in your explanation here. Are you saying that racism is acceptable if you aren't Black? That white people from an ethnic minority people experiencing racism are privileged because they aren't Black and receiving the same racism.

I hate racism in any form at any level, but labelling people by colour doesn't really help to eradicate racism, or even provide understanding. it just continues to encourage division.
There aren't many Black Roma, most are of Asian descent, but the ones I know have experienced racism for their race not their colour. Although, I'm sure if these people were taken from their Roma communities into the gauga community they would be abused due to the colour of their skin.

No, I'm saying that white Roma are still white and therefore have white privilege.

Roma are subject to extreme prejudice and discrimination. And hatred.

White privilege refers only to skin colour, in the context of racism against people of dark skin.

In the great Venn diagram of intersectionality many people with white privilege are startlingly oblivious to other areas of privilege they hold, while others with that specific white privilege are subjected to a range of discriminations and oppressions via class, culture, religion, dis/ability, sexuality, age, poverty etc etc.

It isn’t a competition.

It is choosing to spend this moment looking at what we all do about murderous violence against people because they are black, and against the deep rooted tendrils of oppression that support that,

I understand this and agree it isn't a competition.
Much of our work has ceased over the past few days, and it's a busy time ito education, it's the main month of the year.

I just refuse to accept a label of privilege associated with not experiencing racism when I have.
I can't accept white privilege for the race I belong to because across Europe and throughout the world they are subjected to the same racism as Black people.
I believe BAME lives matter, would have been more fitting and white privilege just doesn't apply to so many people.

Are you at increased risk of police brutality because of the colour of your skin? Like George Floyd was?

This isn't about white travellers any more than it's about xenia's finances.

Not due to skin colour, unless of course it's Black Roma, and my Black cousin tells me, it happens, here in the UK.

So then what does it have to do with BLM?

Moaning that actually some white people have it hard too is unhelpful.

To be fair if you open your mouth round here and have the ‘traveler’ accent the police aren’t going to be kind to you. Not saying that negates BLM and everything it stands for, but the traveler lads get some shit round here and it’s not nice