Mothers - who’s is more important?

[MrsRose2018]

Is the first time mothers “right” or “need” to see their mother/have them around post birth more important than the first time fathers?

No MN rage please, I’m not saying I believe this is true, This is just the conversation me and my husband have been having and I’m curious of your thoughts?

I never said my mum ousted the babies father. But she could help me breastfeed when he couldn't.
I wasn't infantilised by my mum helping. I had an extremely traumatic birth that I needed physical help recovering with. One that I won't divulge the details of but I was very very ill and am still recovering two years later.
I also mentioned it was a wonderful bonus.
I'm glad I had my mum to help me as I was so ill that having o my one person to help with a newborn and someone recovering from horrific injuries would have been tough. Don't you dare say that infantilised me I was lucky to be alive

I also never said new mums 'need' their mum. I said it was a wonderful bonus for me.

But that's your husband's baby, not your mum's. Fine I guess if you want her to look after you but why does she get to oust the baby's dad?

And you don't think it's infantalising women to suggest that they need their mum to look after

Yep. Seriously, what's the point in proving yourself to be a strong independent woman in every other area of life, and rising up and arguing with anyone who implies you're not, then suddenly needing your mummy at the expense of your husband and the other grandmother when a baby comes along?

This seems to be a relatively new thing. Or maybe I was just of the generation that had to move away from where we grew up in order to get a job during the recession in the 80s. But no-one I know had their mother come and look after them when we all had our babies. And our spouses only got three days paternity leave.

I don't understand that while the women's movement has got stronger, we're being weaker in this area.

I let my daughter know that I was available if she needed anything doing or any support (I was happy to pick up their washing and dleiver it back laundered etc - and she could call me any time she needed anything or any moral support) but to me, apart from brief visits, this was couple and baby time for them. Me being there all day, or staying for a few, would be a bad thing, not a good thing. And they were great. I was so proud of their parenting from day 1.

My post above wasn't meant to be aimed at you specifically @heartbrokenfool. Sorry if it looks that way

I had never planned for my mum to be there from day one.
But after nearly dying we needed the extra help.
It isn't a bad thing to have help and ask for help.
It isn't infantilising women and it doesn't stop you being an independent woman if at your most Damaged, wounded and emotionally vulnerable you seek help from someone who you trust to look after you to ease the burden being all on the baby's father.
It also should in no way damage the fathers bond or ability to learn and help in the long term.

My parents are 20 minutes away and my partners 250 miles away. I am much more comfortable with the idea of my partners parents visiting than mine. They are probably coming for a couple of days at the end of my partners paternity leave.

When thinking about who I want around and when I thought back to how they are when I'm ill. I have had migraine at both parents houses. At my mums she barged into the room I was sleeping in every half hour to see if I still had it, kept bringing drinks and food the smell of which made me sick. She didn't care about what I needed but only cared about fulfilling her need to be needed. When my partners parents were visiting us they sent me tobbed with water and painkillers and left me in peace. When I ventured back into the world a few hours later they made me a drink and something to eat.

I definitely know which set of parents I want round after birth. My mother means well but she prioritises what makes her feel better and not whether it is something I want or need. I am high risk of postpartum mental ill health and I would 100% rather my partners parents over mine in that situation!

@saraclara understood thank you :)

It’s not backwards or demeaning to have help in the postnatal period. In most cultures there are customs which protect the time for a woman to heal after having a baby. Western society has become backwards in that regard - driven by capitalist pressures to return to the workforce and social ideals to ‘bounce back’.

It’s ok for women to need or want the care of women postnatally. Some women have great suggestions for feeding or recovery, some women just have a calming presence or a soft touch that means the world, some women will remind you of a time you felt safe, at a time where you might feel violated and traumatised (after a traumatic labour). It’s less likely that your husband will have those exact qualities, or it may be that you don’t need that or that you don’t have a woman like that in your life. Whatever works for the woman who has just given birth goes!

Well said Spoons.

Very well spoken spoons. Disappointed to see posters insist it's against being an Independent woman.

At the moment it doesn't matter because no-one will be able to visit (unless they are able to self isolate for 2 weeks). I feel far more comfortable with my own mum.
I'm not keen on MIL seeing our baby at all because she favours boys over girls every time. It's going to be hard enough for my girls to adjust without being ignored by their grandmother .
Some people have lovely MILs but I'm holding off from her seeing our baby for as long as possible. I know the day I come home she'll expect my husband to drive, pick her up, come here be fed and watered while she fusses over our baby and then be driven home. It's not happening!

Sorry bit that is so selfish to blame covid .I mean this child is as much a grandchild of mil than mum sorry but she sounds awful .what harm can it do to have mil sit in garden and look at baby and if hubby allows this he is pathetic if new mum doesn't want to see mil let her stay in house .mumsnet always thinks it's all about the new mum the new dad us just as important.

It’s dependant on the relationship that the FTM has with the people involved and if they are going to help or hinder her after baby is born.

I didn’t want my mother or my mil around after my first nor did I feel the need for them. I actually felt incredibly uncomfortable with my in-laws around after I had my first. I had known them for less than five years BUT we lived 400+miles away so saw them a few times a year, they had never come to visit us, and we got along but we weren’t close by any stretch. They stayed with us for about a week five days after he was born and it was the absolute last thing I needed after having a traumatic birth. Four adults sharing one bathroom (2 of them having IBS and me recovering from emcs). I felt like I had little privacy and ended up taking showers late at night to have a semblance of it or when they went out on their own, going upstairs to nurse because I felt uncomfortable nursing in front of them, and my husband had to go back to work during the time so it was even more awkward since I had never been alone with them. Also, having mil regale stories about how she had her children naturally where I was coerced into a medically unnecessary induction that failed, and ended in an emcs didn’t help matters either. Physically, mentally, and emotionally, I was not ready for guests and my husband realised it was a bad decision on his part. My mother came six weeks after and I felt more comfortable with her despite our strained relationship and won my husband over by offering to do night feeds. Second time around, we didn’t have any visitors the first two weeks in case it was another bad experience and to settle in. Good for us since baby and I spent most of the time in the hospital for my iron transfusions so wasn’t home most of the time. My mother was our first guest staying 10 days and we drove up to the in-laws after her visit so they, his siblings and other family members could meet him. That worked much better for us since bf and sleep was established, I wasn’t bleeding as heavily so wasn’t worried about staining things, and they could show him off around their village.

Baby isn’t going to know who was there the first few days, weeks, or even months of their life, and bonding takes constant time and effort. My parents live 4,000 miles away but my children know them through their weekly video chats since birth. My youngest (2.5) is still warming up to his paternal grandparents since they only see him during visits (handful of times a year) and only recently started doing video chats due to Covid-19. Whomever is there first doesn’t mean a d**n thing in the grand scheme of things.

@heartbrokenfool

I never said my mum ousted the babies father. But she could help me breastfeed when he couldn't. I wasn't infantilised by my mum helping. I had an extremely traumatic birth that I needed physical help recovering with. One that I won't divulge the details of but I was very very ill and am still recovering two years later. I also mentioned it was a wonderful bonus. I'm glad I had my mum to help me as I was so ill that having o my one person to help with a newborn and someone recovering from horrific injuries would have been tough. Don't you dare say that infantilised me I was lucky to be alive

Yep. I ended up in ITU after the birth of my first baby and he ended up in SCBU. I still didn't need to have my mum come and look after me.

Is this the norm? After an operation or illness adults have their mums come and look after them? Do we not grow out of that stage when we have partners? I can't imagine my husband wanting his mum to come and look after him if he'd had surgery.

And you don't think it's infantalising women to suggest that they need their mum to look after them?

Lol

No - it isn’t. For most of history it has been completely normal for women to receive support and assistance from other women (usually, not always, their mothers) following the birth of a baby because it is recognised as being a time of significant physical, mental and emotional upheaval during which another pair of hands is a useful thing. Just because that may have changed for some women in the last couple of decades doesn’t mean it’s suddenly absurd for women to want their mothers around after a baby is born.

Framing this as some kind of ‘independent woman’ narrative is bullshit. If you don’t want your mother around after you have a baby that is absolutely fine and your decision to make - I respect any woman’s choice about her own life in this regard. But don’t shit on other women and claim they’re infantilised and unable to look after themselves just because they feel differently to you.

I didn't want my mum or DH's mum anywhere near me after I'd given birth, my DH was more than sufficient. I felt very much an adult woman after having a baby and it would have been very wrong for me personally, to have a mum hovering around me.

I accept that everyone is different, of course, but for me I wanted to do it my way not my mum's.

For most of history it has been completely normal for women to receive support and assistance from other women (usually, not always, their mothers) following the birth of a baby

Yes, when it's been the norm to exclude the baby's father from the process. Now dads are included throughout, they are part of the whole process, they can be present during labour and delivery and have paternity leave during the post natal period. This was also the time when women had to lay in for weeks after birth too - we don't do that any more either.

If something were to happen to the mum so that dad was at home alone with the baby would anyone agree with him banning the maternal grandparents until he had established a routine because he wanted his mum to be there to support him?

I really struggle with this concept that we as women need to be "looked after" in this way. I had a crappy time after both of my births. I am not claiming to have been superwoman and I took my time to recover and did what I needed to do but I did it with my husband not by moving in my mum and pushing my husband out.

@zscaler well said!

I’m finding it quite bizarre how some people see not having female help after childbirth as a stamp of successful entry into independent womanhood. And then in the same breath are saying how essential their husband was or how important it was to him that another woman wasn’t there to help. Yes..that sounds very independent woman-like

How about everyone should just have who they find most helpful there, but not criticise other people’s choices? If you preferred just having your husband, great, I did too! But that isn’t some sign that you’re all grown up and clever compared to someone who wants their mum around.

The two things aren't mutually exclusive, you can have both your partner and your mum supporting - there's certainly enough to do with a new baby! I remember DH taking care of all the cooking and housework while I recovered and breastfed, he also did the vast majority of nappy changes while on paternity leave, so he was busy and tired too. We were both very grateful when mum came round, brought food, offered to pick up things we might need on the way, and even did a bit of cleaning. This wasn't disempowering for me or excluding DH, it was just helpful.

I’m finding it quite bizarre how some people see not having female help after childbirth as a stamp of successful entry into independent womanhood. And then in the same breath are saying how essential their husband was or how important it was to him that another woman wasn’t there to help. Yes..that sounds very independent woman-like hmm

So having the baby's dad around to change a nappy, or give the baby a bath or stick a load of washing on or, you know, be a parent means that you aren't independent? Ok then.

For those who had their mum around, what did they help with? Looking after the baby? What about the child's father - did he not want to look after his child? Or was it to look after you? In which case, I do find that odd.

@hearhoovesthinkzebras I think that being an ‘independent woman’ and a success story of feminism is not at all dependent on who you chose to have helping you postnatally. Judging women negatively as childlike for wanting the support of their mum/MIL is ridiculous and you could equally judge another woman for needing the support of their husband as being weak. It’s just all nonsense.

My mum wasn’t really around much, but the time that she was there she brought us a lovely hot meal. She made a gorgeous display of flowers and gifts that we’d been given in our front room. Something my husband wouldn’t have had the energy or possibly thought to do, but seeing it every morning made me feel like a million dollars and as though I’d just climbed Everest in the eyes of loved ones. While my husband was downstairs with the baby she ran me a deep bath with lavender oil and laid me fresh pyjamas out. I feel embarrassed writing this out, because I’m sure I’ll get slammed for being a ‘child’ or ‘princess’. But it was nice, it made me feel really good inside when I was feeling tense and hormonal. She didn’t take over on cares with the baby, she just made me feel seen and loved.

Obviously this all depends greatly on people’s relationships with their mothers and MIL. But it’s incredibly sad that some women’s experience of another woman’s care is so negative, to think they would be reduced to taking over on changing nappies and making a new dad feel inferior. Some things are more subtle than that.

I think mother of baby should have who she wants there as main priority. My mum said it was important to her to make sure her baby (me!) was ok & she ‘needed’ to see me which I now understand as a mother myself. MIL may not have as much immediate ‘need’ to be there, in that her DS hasn’t just given birth, but if all relationships are healthy & mature I understand them ‘wanting’ to be there ASAP. I think a prescriptive ‘don’t visit for 1 month’ seems harsh as MIL is bound to be excited to meet baby (& see their DS & DIL!). Sounds like mum-to-be is trying to control the situation but probably better & less emotive to just play it by ear & see how they feel after the birth? Personally I couldn’t wait to show my baby off but appreciate current circumstances would have made that difficult, especially when people have to travel some distance. Just shows you just can’t judge someone else or their relationships. You do you & they will do them.

Depends on the relationship. I had my mum at the birth of my son and my boys dad and my mum pushed my boyfriend out the way and took over and then took it out on me when my son's was in NICU for 5 days after he was born and me and his dad were the only people allowed to hold him. She couldn't accept she wasn't able to hold her grandson. Unfortunately my partner's mum would never have been able to be there due to health issues but if I'd of been able too I'd of rather had her there to support my partner while I was put to sleep to have our boy than him have to put up with my self centered everything is about me mother.

@hearhoovesthinkzebras

All I was capable of doing after my very traumatic birth was put baby to my breast. Even that required lots of help with moving to a comfortable position and getting a good latch.
If I hadn't had my mum to help my husband would have been holding a newborn, nappies, cooling, washing clothes, cleaning house and physically helping me wash, help my mental state with chats and attention at my most emotional and traumatised state.
You clearly have never had a birth like I had.
To have put all the burden onto just my husband when we were lucky enough to have had an offer of help would have been foolish.
Had I had a straightforward birth who knows if my mum would have physically stayed with us. Not to mention we came home at the tail end of paternity leave due to staying in hospital.
I'm so fortunate to have an incredible relationship with my mother who was available to help. My husband and I are so so grateful

@hearhoovesthinkzebras are you a mother?