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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find it scary that people have willingly downloaded the track and trace app?

328 replies

SunnyThatsMyName · 29/05/2020 16:59

This all reminds me of the start of some sci-fi/thriller movie.
Why are people so easily giving away their details to this useless government?

OP posts:
PerkingFaintly · 29/05/2020 20:32

Currently app has permission to use your location data (not just Bluetooth "pinging"), they can keep it for up to 20 year and you will be identifiable.

Da fuq?!

Sorry, can you link to the evidence for that? I'm prepared to get really quite annoyed if that's precisely true.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 29/05/2020 20:34

horses

plus other personal & health info

reeceormeese · 29/05/2020 20:36

Oh look at OP, look at how clever and superior they are. Get them a certificate.

DadOnAHotTinRoof · 29/05/2020 20:36

Sorry if this comes across as mansplainy. It's not supposed to be.

The app is not using location services on your device. All it's doing is listening on bluetooth (which has nothing to do with GPS or locations) for other devices close to you with the app installed. When two devices find each other, they have a little conversation and together invent and share IDs for each other that they do not share with the central server - like a nickname.

If you test positive for Covid, then you tell your app and it sends its list of nicknames that it worked out with other devices to the server.

All devices are continuously connecting to the server to download the list of nicknames that have been in contact with somebody with Covid. Remember that these nicknames are not IDs that can identify somebody - they're just the names that a pair of devices worked out for each other when they had their little chat.

If a device finds its own nickname on the list, then it can inform its user that they've been close to somebody with the disease.

So, your location data is not shared, and the Evil Nefarious Government cannot work out who's seen who based on the lists of nicknames - they're only meaningful to the devices that invented them.

All of this is totally verifiable, because the NHS has made the code for both the Android and IOS versions of their apps available on Github, so anybody who can read code (and there are loads of us) can check to see exactly what the app does. Disclaimer: beyond a cursory look, I've not dug too deeply. :)

I'm just posting this because this is one of the best approaches to this kind of thing that I've seen - it's very transparent, very open, and they're clearly trying hard to mitigate precisely the concerns being voiced on this thread.

SunnyThatsMyName · 29/05/2020 20:38

@reeceormeese ermmm okay Hmm very mature

OP posts:
FinallySleeping · 29/05/2020 20:39

Anti-trackers appear to be the anti-vaxxers of the pandemic.

The myriad of claims being made on this thread without any shred of evidence, and the use of Cummings' behaviour as justification not to embrace track and trace is staggering.

disorganisedsecretsquirrel · 29/05/2020 20:40

Do people not know how much information the government already has on you ?

I work for a government department and within a few clicks I can find out ;

Where you live
Who you live with
Where you have lived since 1998
Who you have lived with since 1998
Your credit history
Your up to date (last month PAYE details) going back to 2012
If you are self employed I can see how much you have declared
Your mobile phone no.
Your date of birth
Your children's names and when they were born and their fathers name if declared. (If it isn't declared I can still find it if you made a CMS claim)
Any benefits you have declared in the last 20 years
Your immigration status
Your reason for asylum
Your criminal background
Where your car has been in the last two weeks
Where your mobile has been in the last few days (longer if a RIPA is approved )

All readily available to me LONG before lockdown.

What is it that you honestly think the government doesn't know (or can know with a bit of looking.

I will be downloading a govt approved app to help me and mine stay safe.

As the saying goes. ' if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear'

LangClegsInSpace · 29/05/2020 20:41

Has it been released yet, outside of the Isle of Wight?

I won't be downloading the government app.

I think test / isolate / trace / quarantine is the only strategy that will get us out of this. It's the only thing that has worked anywhere in the world, with or without various other measures.

Unless we get our heads round this we will be stuck in an increasingly damaging cycle of lockdown - surge - lockdown - surge ... in the hope that we eventually get a vaccine and that when we do we still have enough infrastructure left to deliver an effective vaccine programme.

It's not the economy vs. lockdown. If we don't learn to contain this virus then we can expect several times the current death toll and a fucked economy, as well as many times worse toll on our mental and social wellbeing.

We have to get this right or we are fucked.

Even a good app would only be a helpful additional tool. It relies on people to have a smart phone, download an app, switch it on, switch bluetooth on, take it with them every time they go out ... and the proportion of people who will realistically go through all of these stages is not very big.

We don't even have a good app. Ours has major data protection issues and is not compatible with anyone else's. This might be important for anyone wanting to go abroad in the next few months / years.

Contact tracing overwhelmingly needs to be done by humans, not only because of the shortcomings of any app, but because it's an intrusive and distressing process which will not work in the absence of trust. There are still many things wrong with the way human contact tracing has been set up but that's where we should be focussing our efforts.

SunnyThatsMyName · 29/05/2020 20:44

Once again: i'm not not downloading the app because of "privacy", i'm not downloading the app because I believe it is rushed and open to abuse

OP posts:
lilgreen · 29/05/2020 20:44

I don’t get it. What information? Where I’ve been? That’s no secret, there’s cctv everywhere!

user1471590586 · 29/05/2020 20:48

Have all of you that won't download it turned off all location services on your phone? Is your Gps on? Have you looked at google dashboard recently? Your location is recorded and triangulated from phone masts everytime you use your phone. Also do you ever automatically connect to wifi in shops? The phone networks already know where you are.

Poetryinaction · 29/05/2020 20:48

Why do people keep saying mumsnet has more info on you than a track and trace app would have?
I don't use apps. I use the mumsnet website, where I may or may not have put in my real details.
I don't use mobile data or bluetooth. I use my wifi in my own house. Out of the house I leave my phone behind when I can, off for work. If it's on, it's in use as a phone. It is a smartphone but not an iphone.
I won't use track and trace because I do not want to be trackable and traceable. I don't want people to know where I am all the time. It's too controlling.
Does this app thing assume that everyone carries a smartphone with mobile data and bluetooth constantly? I'm not willing to do that.

FlyingFlamingo · 29/05/2020 20:49

I am as far from an antivaccer as it is possible to be, I would have volunteered for a COVID vaccine if I lived in one of the testing areas, I have paid for a chicken pox vaccine for one of my children alongside the scheduled immunisations.

I trust the NHS, I trust our medical professionals.

I DO NOT trust our incompetent and increasingly corrupt government. I assume you have seen today’s news about our housing minister?

PinkiOcelot · 29/05/2020 20:50

What is the app actually called?

Abbccc · 29/05/2020 20:51

@lilgreen

I don’t get it. What information? Where I’ve been? That’s no secret, there’s cctv everywhere!
No there isn't.
HorsesInTheSky · 29/05/2020 20:53

What information? Where I’ve been? That’s no secret, there’s cctv everywhere!

I don't want people to know where I am all the time. It's too controlling

As explained by a PP above, the app will not collect location data. It will not track your movement.

Oysterbabe · 29/05/2020 20:53

Some people are determined to be locked down forever.

I won't go out until there's a vaccine but I'm not having some rushed out vaccine with no idea of the long term effects. We need proper track and trace before we open the schools but I'm not downloading the track and trace app to be followed by big brother.

Parker231 · 29/05/2020 20:53

Information from Gov.uk as to what will happen

How will I be told I am a contact?
The NHS Test and Trace service will get in touch with anyone who is a contact of someone who has tested positive for coronavirus (COVID-19) by text message, email or phone.

What should I do if I am a contact of someone who has tested positive for coronavirus (COVID-19)?
If you have been informed that you are a contact, the medical advice is clear: you must immediately self-isolate at home for 14 days from the date of your last contact with the person who has tested positive for coronavirus (COVID-19).

Self-isolation means you must stay at home and not leave the house for 14 days.

It is very important that you follow this advice even if you feel well, as symptoms can take up to 14 days to appear from your last contact with the person who has tested positive for coronavirus (COVID-19).

Self-isolating in this way will help protect your family, friends, the wider community and the NHS.

ScruffbagsRUs · 29/05/2020 20:55

YANBU OP. Not going to download the app. If it becomes mandatory to download it, then I will, but there's no point as I'll just leave my phone in the house, and use one of my old Nokia 3310's that still work. Can't download shit on those phones, which is why they're great. Any number that rings my phone and I don't recognise, I don't answer. So even if T&T did get in touch with me, I wouldn't answer as I either wouldn't recognise the number, or I wouldn't answer anyway.

When I go out, I want to be left TF alone and NOT to be traced and tracked as much as possible. I only take a phone with me anyway, when I'm going for a big shop etc, and need a taxi. Other than that, I make it a habit to leave my phone in the house as much as possible.

Poetryinaction · 29/05/2020 20:55

That was helpful actually DadOnAHotTinRoof. Thanks. Though I'd rather not have my phone on me and switched on at all times.

twinnywinny14 · 29/05/2020 20:58

@NELass can you explain it to us then? Genuinely want to know more info. I’m confused how it works but don’t want this to put me off playing my part

SabrinaThwaite · 29/05/2020 21:00

Most significantly, it is in the control of a company run by Cummings' mates

Fake news.

Nope.

Marc Warner and Faculty have been tinkering with it.

SabrinaThwaite · 29/05/2020 21:03

Cloudspotter - the Cummings associated with the app is not related to Dominic

The company associated with the Cummings that is not Dominic’s sister is not the company tinkering with the app.

Violetparis · 29/05/2020 21:03

Count the government has lied and shown themselves to be totally untrustworthy over Cummings so many people don't trust them on anything now including the app.

Springersrock · 29/05/2020 21:06

I have the NHS app

The only information you enter is the first 4 digits of your postcode. It does not track you. I have location services switched off on my phone.

The only downside I have found with it is remembering to turn it on as you have to open up the app and leave it open when you leave the house.

And it eats my phone battery

I’ve had it a few weeks - I’ve been in shops, work, the beach, etc, and I’ve not had an alert at all