When the looting starts, the shooting starts.

[Annamaria14]

Can you believe that Trump has just tweeted this comment? He is talking about the protests about George Floyd's death. He has also called the protestors "thugs".

Twitter has put a warning on his twitter post, saying that it "glorifies violence". It is also racist!

The "historical context" is a reference to the late 1960s, when the phrase "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" was coined by Miami Police Chief Walter Headley, in reference to his aggressive policing policies in black neighbourhoods.

Puzzled I assume that means they examined a victims social media accounts to help verify race, age etc.

There are lots of reputable ways to do data collection on social media.

'blacks' is not a typo

@HelloToMyKitty that's what you take from that? Simply that black Americans are more criminal?

I’m not saying black Americans are criminals. I’m saying that when a minority of your community is disproportionately involved in activities like murders (over 50%) you will have more encounters with cops, which have risk of turning deadly. No question.

I’ve never denied police brutality is a problem. It absolutely is.

Here’s another interesting study: scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/fryer_police_aer.pdf

Nothing to do with police or societal bias? Nothing to do white people panicking and phoning to police at the sight of a black person? Nothing to do with unsafe convictions?

Give me stats or studies, not stories. Those can create false narratives. I could tell you the story about Daniel Shaver, who was also a death-by-cop victim of a panicked phone call to police. But you probably don’t care.

I'm going to say it. You're a racist I don’t really care what you think.

I won’t believe a false narrative if the stats don’t support it. Sorry. That shouldn’t make one a racist but in these weird times ....

Are you the same racist who posted the black on black crime stats from the American free press on the Ahmaud Arbery thread? I seem to remember you going pn about black people being criminals on there too

I posted stats direct from the FBI. I guess you’re referring to some other poster.

You‘re basically calling me a racist for posting stats from government bodies and studies from reputable organizations.

You’d do better to deal with facts.

Also out of interest, I read the SPLC article and it totally backs up what I was saying in that thread:

By overwhelming percentages, whites tend to kill other whites. Similarly, blacks tend to kill other blacks. These trends have been observed for decades

There was a lot of fearmongering there that white people were somehow a major threat to black people. BUT study after study shows that most violence is intraracial in nature, as does your linked article.

Black Americans do NOT commit more than half of homicides. Just checked the FBI stats for the last five years. So you can stop with this whole data scientist cosplay.

All the cases that people are protesting about involved people who were not violent criminals. Who were unarmed. Many had not done anything wrong at all. So it's really immaterial what the murder stats are anyway.

The more pertinent stat is what Shiny mentioned, stop and search, which is a much more frequent interaction that can go wrong. In New York City this was so racially biased that it was found unconstitutional. Studies found it was biased even controlling for crime rates.

It is straight up Klan reasoning to say black people are shot more because they're criminals and nothing else. This is literally what white supremacists have been saying for 150 years. I don't know why you think your bad reading of stats is more valid than the lived experience of millions of black Americans, but it is really offensive.

I know, you don't care if we think you're racist. Which really, only a racist would say.

Someone needs to take his fucking keyboard away. He is dangerous with the shit he comes out with both from his mouth and the stuff he writes.

I’m so angry and upset right now

Yes Trump threatened to set loose vicious dogs on protesters. An obvious racist reference (obvious to Americans anyway).

And you can't say he was mistaken because the mayor of DC has confirmed there are no dogs. He's just being a dick.

Black Americans do NOT commit more than half of homicides. Just checked the FBI stats for the last five years

Stats are from the Department of Justice and track from 1980-2008:
www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

All the cases that people are protesting about involved people who were not violent criminals

And yes, police brutality is a real problem. But does it disproportionately affect black Americans?

The more pertinent stat is what Shiny mentioned, stop and search, which is a much more frequent interaction that can go wrong

I personally think this is unconstitutional and should not be police practice. In fact, there are so many things that should not be police practice. I’d like to see less killings by cops, wouldn’t you?

It is straight up Klan reasoning to say black people are shot more because they're criminals and nothing else

Erm... they aren’t actually shot or killed more. But seemingly out of proportion to the percentage of population. But there are more police interactions, which must be accounted for in studies.

I know, you don't care if we think you're racist. Which really, only a racist would say

I know, when you can’t defend your position, you start with the racism accusations.

When you get the mass murders in America, the school shootings, the perpetrators are overwhelmingly white men.

This man was murdered because, presumably, the shop called the cops because they thought he might have used s dodgy note.

Other men have been killed for going for s run etc

That does not happen to white people in the same way.

I read a report where a black woman had the cops called because she tried to open a bank account and put a cheque in. They called the police because it was too much money for a black woman to have...

When you get the mass murders in America, the school shootings, the perpetrators are overwhelmingly white men

And? This is a known problem among antisocial young white men. Why should we not talk about it? Maybe we don’t talk enough about it!

That does not happen to white people in the same way

It does, though. I gave a case that of a mentally ill, unarmed white man who died in similar circumstances to Floyd. Tony Timpa if you want to look up details. The family never got justice and the cops are back on active duty.

I read a report where a black woman had the cops called because she tried to open a bank account and put a cheque in. They called the police because it was too much money for a black woman to have

This is racist behavior from the bank and should not happen.

I have never denied that racism is real. It is. I am saying that I do not think statistics support the statement that black Americans are disproportionately at risk from police killings.

I do want to clarify that what happened to George Floyd was tragic and I hope that all the officers involved get jailed.

I also applaud BLM for marching for Daniel Shaver. Even though he was white and technically outside their purview, they marched for him.

I do think that black Americans feel more sympathy for victims of police shootings, in that they feel that it is more likely to happen to them or their loved ones.

A lot of white Americans seem to believe that police would never kill them or their loved ones, or use disproportionate force. So when a clear example of police brutality pops up in the news, they don’t care or they don’t get outraged, and the story falls from the headlines in a matter of days.

I have no proof, but it’s just my opinion on why they don’t get angry about these things. Often they try to victim blame, too. Shaver shouldn’t have been drunk (in his own hotel room!) or Timpa shouldn’t have called the police on himself.

I think white/Asian/Indian/Hispanic Americans need to understand that this doesn’t just happen to ‘others’. It could happen to them and their loved ones, and we need to tackle the problem of police brutality.

Mandatory body cams are a great idea, and they should be released upon request with no pushback.

Police unions need broken up.

A cop who kills an unarmed victim should NOT be placed on paid leave, as often happens.

The cozy relationship between the police department and the city prosecutors is another thing that could be looked at; why don’t prosecutors tend to apply charges in these cases?

A lot of things to examine here

Well he was a bouncer....at least 6ft....how easy would it be for just 1 police officer to restrain him exactly? Plus I've worked in bars and clubs the bouncers are usually big for a reason!

'. I am saying that I do not think statistics support the statement that black Americans are disproportionately at risk from police killings.'

They do though. The raw stats do. They are twice as likely to be killed by police than a white person, per head of population.

That's a simple fact.

You can start to look for reasons this might be and say well if you take xyz into account it explains it. But the raw stats do not support your argument. So why not concede that. It just makes you sound like you have an angle and it makes your other points less persuasive.

I really can't comprehend the arrogance of insisting you know more about this than millions of black Americans but if you want statistical evidence here are dozens and dozens of studies documenting racial bias in the American justice system, including police encounters and shootings:

www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2018/09/18/theres-overwhelming-evidence-that-the-criminal-justice-system-is-racist-heres-the-proof/

Here are some more on shootings specifically:

www.vox.com/identities/2016/8/13/17938186/police-shootings-killings-racism-racial-disparities

So maybe go do some homework before bringing your 'all lives matter' BS up in here

@lonelyfemale

Are you still trying to justify cold blooded murder?

They need to be shot. They are thugs destroying businesses and putting others in danger. I saw a video of a man crying because his shop had been looted and he said he came from nothing and built it up and now it's burnt down! One women trying to stop a shop being looted got a fire extinguisher set off in her face!! So yes shoot them they are destroying the city!!!

Yeah, more police murdering people is what's needed now.

I read something today, about being a white ally of Black Lives Matter.

It really resonated.

It said, in a nutshell, 'shut up'. Try listening for once.

Instead of, is this a term yet, 'whitesplaining'.

And nothing has changed since 19 fucking 92.

I'd be right royally, homicidally, pissed off too.