Aibu about bad zoom etiquette

[Timinfuckingruislip]

Will preface this with “I know times are unusual etc etc”.

However - I always work from home (not covid related - have done so for years). And a huge majority of my meetings are conducted online.

However am starting to get a bit fed up with people deciding to do any of the following

• speak to their children throughout
• decide to answer their phone - WITHOUT muting
• wonder off

And all manner of other things you just wouldn’t do in a normal meeting

It pisses me off as meetings are taking twice as long as they need to, and while I’m happy and friendly enough to say hello to your child/dog/cat whatever at the start - it shouldn’t then interrupt.

Aibu to say that, while having a booked meeting you should be fully present?

My manager went and put her pyjamas on in an evening meeting, she vanished came back and explained she had to wear “leisurewear” for comfort when asked about her change of clothes, it was about 7pm if that makes any difference.

The best bit of a Zoom meeting is the end, I can’t not see and hear this now as each meeting ends

@Timinfuckingruislip

Exactly! There is a big difference from things that can't be helped (small children making noise, needing some attention quickly ect) and things that people don't want to help (not allowing their children to actually take part in the call, shutting the cat/dog out of the room, telling kids their busy right now and will be with them soon to hear about whatever they want to show them).

I can't stand these meetings. In normal meetings you don't have to see your own face looking like a fat thumb. You don't even have to look right at people. People are working from home with their kids there, so if the kids need their parent then their parent needs to respond to them.

@changeitupagain I think you’ve hit what I’m trying to say in the head. It’s not things that can’t be helped - that’s jist life. It’s things that can be helped - that’s what I mean by etiquette

I agree that people need to mute their mics when they aren't speaking in a team meeting.

A certain professionalism is still required.

@BearySad that hilarious

A music organisation that DD1 (she's a teenager) is involved in sent out a brilliantly clear-but-friendly list of tips for successful Zoom sessions before they moved everything online. It includes pointers along the lines of; choose an appropriate place to be when in the session - we don't want to see you in bed, think about what's behind you - is it suitable for others in the group to see, wear appropriate clothing (we don't want to see lots of your skin), remember you are on video; don't do anything you wouldn't normally do in one of our sessions...

Although that's aimed at teenagers, I don't think it's a bad idea to send guidelines out with meeting invitations/links. It sounds as though you'd like your time to be valued rather than you'd like people's children to be gagged or invisible whilst in a meeting. That's not unreasonable but because people aren't used to this new way of working, spelling out the expectations is sensible. Perhaps you could include an initial slide for participants to read e.g.

1. please mute yourself at the start and stay on mute unless X,
2. please stay in a fixed location for the duration of the meeting/training i.e. don't wander around your home, or go for a drive
3. if you need to speak to others in your home during the meeting, please double-check you are still on mute,
4. please don't include other members of your household in the meeting; if a child needs to sit on your lap etc. please switch off your camera.

I'm sure there's a way of writing them to sound considerate of some of the challenges people are facing and to help out those who just don't get it.

I dont use my camera for this exact reason. I also stay on mute unless I need to take.my child is having several severe melt downs a day.

I look a worn out frazzled mess unlike my office appearance and I dont want my work colleagues seeing me like this. Or my child losing their mind in their own home broadcast around my company.

I would ask for everyone on mute at beginning of call unless speaking and camera of unless absolutely needed.

@SE13Mummy brilliant idea thank you! (And hello from a previous SE13- er)

The big problem is lack of childcare. I have always worked from home. I used to leave the house to drop dd at school or a summer activity in the morning and then go back to my home to work. Now despite having a light to indicate I am on a call, she knocks or even just enters my office to tell me something or ask me for something. She is a child, she has been left with little to do, and sometimes she is impulsive. Mine is also old enough to understand when I shoo her away quickly. My colleagues with younger kids don’t have that luxury. They have to tie a shoe or hand out a juice while still trying to hold a meeting. It’s crazy, but it won’t last forever. Even as people continue to wfh, child care will once again become available.

Se13mummy outlines it nicely. I have no doubt the person who declined to turn on his camera when he started presenting, and remained firm on that stance when pressed by another colleague, had at least one child hanging off him while he was trying to talk, because in smaller meetings those kids have appeared and that was fine, but the 30 person meeting with several big-wigs required he keep his camera off.

@purple nicely summed up. I think the example of your boss is the perfect example of what I mean. I could t care less if you’re on mute with the camera off. I don’t care if you nip out “quietly”.

Am going to use @SE13Mummy a guidelines though - really really helpful

I wfh a lot (pre lock down) and actually it's a tough one as at the moment there is simply no childcare which would not happen under normal circumstances. The not muting is a bit wtf tho :/

I’m sorry OP but you say that you provide training- the sad truth is likely to be that the people doing the training are not really taking it seriously- either they see it as a fun break from their daily working responsibilities or they don’t really want to be there but have been forced by their manager to do it. They have no ore-existing relationship with you so don’t really give a shit. I bet they act completely differently when in internal meeting with people senior to them, or with clients/stakeholders etc.

In every zoom meeting I have ever done sick lockdown started it has been standard to mute yourself unless you are talking. Of course that gives rise to the classic “You’re on mute Dave!” scenario when people forget and want to interject, but by and large it works.

You should absolutely NOT have your child anywhere near your screen while you are working. Extremely unprofessional.

Training - hard to explain without being outing bit it’s likely that those who are on it have chosen to be - it’s not generic.

Chosen to be because they fancy a break from their usual work though maybe?

I think to try and sum up how I feel about kids on calls (and threat actually isn’t the root of my argument).

Remember the newsreader ... I LOVED that clip. However if he had then chosen to stick his daughter up on his lap, let her tell the world about her favourite Lego, invited the baby who came in to then say hello / I’d be a hit

Also, in their minds their company is paying you, they are the client so they can treat you how they like.

@ArgumentativeAardvaark hmm unlikely. But I do get your point, back in my corporate days I used to love day out of the office on training.

But it’s not always training I’m taking about (and the training really is specific). Sometimes it’s more work related and the issue is still the same.

I think it’s more what people have said above - I’m used to doing online meetings - others are not / and right now it’s just “one more thing to do”

Unless I'm very participative in a meeting, I stay on mute; if I'm more observing, I only have my photo rather than video. I was doing that the other day (evening) and wandered into the bedroom and laid down, my cat managed to flip it back onto video when she stood on the laptop. Hopefully no one noticed.

I accept children will wander in - it's having to coo and make conversation that I object to.
I have zoom-met some of my colleagues adorable cats, dogs and a puppy though - and a new kitten is arriving at the end of next week.

That side of getting to know colleagues better has been really nice.

I get the rage at all the 'accidental' arses and willies that you hear about. To have so little communication or respect for your partner and their work, you've got your willy out in the background of their meeting would actually be a LTB moment for me.

Absolutely unreasonable. Most people are not set up for home working, they are making do in the surroundings they have and without childcare. Perhaps they should just shut the children and the pets in a cupboard for the duration of the meeting. Most company “working from home” policies explicitly state you shouldn’t be responsible for childcare whilst wfh because it’s not possible to do both but these are not normal times.