Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

People comparing Cummings to Caroline Flack

203 replies

panhandledrama · 27/05/2020 10:15

I am quite shocked to see a number of posts in the last few days comparing the media treatment of Dominic Cummings to that of Caroline Flack . And how we need to #bekind
Surely there is no comparison! Caroline was a minor celebrity who was hounded due to a domestic incident
Cummings told us as a nation what we can't do and then did it himself while other people lost jobs and couldn't say goodbye to dying loved ones due to sticking to HIS rules. People are outraged that other (labour) mp's have done similar but they aren't the prime ministers puppet master

Surely people can see that these are totally different scenarios and people have a right to be outraged this time!

OP posts:
Pleasenodont · 27/05/2020 12:00

He wasn’t being kind when he fucked with social media algorithms and lied to the British public with his famous Brexit bus.

He isn’t a kind person. A person like Cummings does not deserve kindness.

GentleParent · 27/05/2020 12:00

@Tomorrowsanewday - Nope. Neither is OK. Ordinary members of the public have bee consistently shamed for breaking the rules too - see the various "Clovidiots" headlines. But it's much, much worse to break the rules when -

a) You made the rules
b) The health of the nation depends on mass public buy-in to those rules
c) Others are making huge sacrifices to obey those rules
d) You are in a unique position which means that your particular actions will have a much greater impact on public attitude towards the rules than the average man in the street / TV presenter breaking the rules

Hope that clears it up.

GentleParent · 27/05/2020 12:03

@Pleasenodont - I broadly agree with you... But actually, I don't think this is about kindness at all. "Kindness" is being cynically leveraged as a distraction in this context. It's about Truth, Accountability and Public Health.

YounghillKang · 27/05/2020 12:05

Lies and denial didn’t work for Cummings, nor did the PM’s ill-conceived defence, so assume the ‘Be Kind’ campaign is a last-ditch attempt spearheaded by his PR team to deflect from his unjustified rule-breaking. Presumably they think that if we’re distracted enough, we’ll forget what actually happened. That trip, if any part of his wife’s article on their illness is accurate, put their child at serious risk. What sensible parent would get into a car when they’re supposedly extremely unwell and drive their small child across country? Not to mention later using them as the equivalent of a crash-test dummy - putting the child into a car yet again and driving them around when they thought their eyesight might actually be too dodgy to do it safely.
The drive to Durham also put other people’s families and children at risk, don’t forget it was at a time in the lockdown when driving long distances was restricted (and loads of other people were stopped by police and interrogated even on short journeys), because of the dangers of possibly needing roadside assistance, spreading the virus from one part of the country to another, and endangering anyone who came into contact with them on roadside stops. He didn’t even consider the risk he posed to his own parents in their 70s. The type of parents the rest of us were told to stay away from.

Not to mention when called on it, Cummings then tried to wriggle out of taking any responsibility for what he did by trying to use a loophole in the rules. A loophole intended to allow abuse victims to be able to leave their homes and go elsewhere. Other families were sticking to the rules, coping with children when ill, not seeing dying family or friends, staying indoors, even going without food rather than risk spreading the virus. What was so special about Cummings? He refuses to take any responsibility for his actions or apologise, he could have said, for example, my judgement was poor, I panicked, I’m sorry…he chose not to be accountable, so I’m glad that others are holding him to account.

He’s a public figure who basically pissed on the lockdown rules and by extension the millions of other people self-isolating and coping with far harder situations, and now he and Johnson are assuming we’re all too stupid or too forgetful to remember that what Cummings did was wrong.

Hont1986 · 27/05/2020 12:07

What Flack did is far worse than Cummings, ridiculous comparison.

GentleParent · 27/05/2020 12:08

@bigchris - Yes, the fact his son went to hospital makes it even worse. London (where they travelled from) was a hotbed of infection, whereas Durham had not yet seen a large spike in cases. So they potentially took coronavirus to that hospital in Durham. This is precisely why the advice was to stay at home if you had symptoms - not travel across the country.

GentleParent · 27/05/2020 12:09

@Hont1986 - I assume you are joking? What DC did has much wider implications. Also - we don't actually know for sure what Flack did, do we?

TabbyMumz · 27/05/2020 12:11

It is absolutely the same . Doesnt matter what he did or what she did, his life is absolute hell at the moment. Probably his families too. His treatment by the press has been vicious. He has been hounded and hounded. That interrogation he had was awful.

YounghillKang · 27/05/2020 12:13

Really Hont did Flack directly endanger the lives of people across country? Did Flack endanger the life of a four-year-old child? Did Flack, as a consequence, of her position rally a whole government to essentially lie for her? And in peddling that lie did Flack endanger the health and possible lives of the millions of vulnerable people in this country by essentially kickstarting an anti-lockdown campaign, because the refusal of the government to condemn her actions has made hosts of people think that everything they sacrificed was pointless?

Langsdestiny · 27/05/2020 12:15

Be kind was and is awful. My be kind will be utterly different to your be kind. It means shit up and shouldn't have been used in either the CF or the DC case.

YounghillKang · 27/05/2020 12:16

It is absolutely the same . Doesnt matter what he did or what she did, his life is absolute hell at the moment. Probably his families too. His treatment by the press has been vicious. He has been hounded and hounded. That interrogation he had was awful

Then he should do the decent thing, apologise and resign. He hasn't even stuck to the rules governing his role as a Special Advisor!

GentleParent · 27/05/2020 12:16

@TabbyMumz - WHAT?!

The rules are there to try to save lives. Because of his position of power, his actions have severely undermined this - not just his action of driving to Durham, but (more importantly) his refusal to admit that it was a mistake. Do you honestly feel sorry for him because he is now being grilled about that? And do you honestly feel that his personal discomfort is more important than the success or otherwise of public health messaging during a pandemic?

I imagine the lives of these grieving relatives are not too rosy at the moment -

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/18/not-ready-to-go-tributes-paid-to-uk-first-named-victims-of-coronavirus

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/30/i-feel-completely-lost-families-tell-of-covid-19-care-home-deaths

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-deaths-cases-family-separated-isolation-covid-19-a9404041.html

AlternativePerspective · 27/05/2020 12:16

The Whole #beKind is a load of virtue signalling anyway and is meaningless, and irritating.

This has turned into a complete witch hunt, and regardless of what he has done the media are completely out of order here. But then that is the press all over isn’t it.

As for Caroline Flack, she was no innocent. And I would bet money that if she’d been a man people wouldn’t be saying that “we don’t actually know what happened,” they’d be saying “he was clearly a narcissist who killed himself rather than face the music.”

Regardless of any of that, the outcome for Flack was horrible, and much of that was the press’s fault.

If DC were to commit suicide would people still be saying that it’s not the same? That the media were right to hound him in the way they did?

The situations are different, but the responses are identical, hence why there is a comparison.

Cummings hasn’t actually killed anyone. So from that POV I agree with PP that what Flack was accused of was far worse.

GentleParent · 27/05/2020 12:26

It baffles me that people cannot see that DC needs to be judged by different standards than the man on the street.

Yes - the press response to both was intense. But it is clearly justified in DC's case. You don't have to charge at someone with a knife to be responsible for a series of events that culminates in many deaths. That's like saying that nobody was responsible for Grenfell because no single individual directly set anyone alight.

The public interest justification for the media scrutiny is infinitely greater in DC's case - there really is no comparison! His actions (and refusal to admit they were wrong) have become a massive factor in how successfully the delicate process of easing lockdown can be managed. This is an absolutely huge story with wide-reaching consequences and I am genuinely amazed that people have been so easily hoodwinked.

We get the leaders we deserve, I suppose.

YounghillKang · 27/05/2020 12:26

Cummings hasn’t actually killed anyone

Since there's a strong possibility of people dying because of the consequences of his actions, either through contact during his trip, or as a result of people ignoring rules now the PM has defended Cummings's rule breaking, I'm finding it hard to be sympathetic. Especially toward the person who, it seems, thought pensioners dying as a result of his support for uncontrolled herd immunity was no big deal.

justanotherneighinparadise · 27/05/2020 12:27

I can sort of see the comparison. It’s rurned into a witch hunt and I guess people are concerned he could take his life if he’s mental health isn’t good.

Barnabeeboyo · 27/05/2020 12:27

The difference is that he is male and no one seems to give a shit about male mental health on here. You see it all the time. They get mocked

YounghillKang · 27/05/2020 12:28

Gentleparent excellent points and the Grenfell comparison was very apt.

YounghillKang · 27/05/2020 12:31

Are there a lot of Trump supporters on this thread? A surprising amount of people bandying about the term 'witch hunt' in an attempt to distract from the facts of the matter. It's one of Trump's favourite tactics. He also doesn't seem to be able to distinguish between the actual meaning of a witch hunt and the need for public accountability and scrutiny.

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 27/05/2020 12:32

Cummings hasn’t actually killed anyone. So from that POV I agree with PP that what Flack was accused of was far worse

Well Caroline Flack didn't kill anyone did she?
But that is a great big red herring because we actually don't know what the consequences of Cummings's various jaunts (his accounts coincidently link with the sightings Hmm) do we? We'll never know how many other people contracted covid because of his instincts.
He needs to go along with Johnson.
Not sure they will be a huge loss tbh given the position we are in with excess deaths, care home fiasco, economy tanked etc.
I think it would be unlikely we would miss their 'big brains'

GentleParent · 27/05/2020 12:33

@Barnabeeboyo - There are thousands of men who desperately need access to face to face mental health services. The better we manage the easing of lockdown, the sooner they can have access to those again. Those people matter just as much as DC.

His actions have potentially compromised a successful lifting of lockdown, because they have taken the piss out of an already-fatigued nation, making it more likely that people will either ignore rules entirely or be confused about when rules really apply and when you can use "judgement".

Scotland's chief medical officer Catherine Calderwood is an apt comparison here: she broke the rules, came in for intense scrutiny, acknowledged that this made it impossible for the public to take official advice seriously and resigned. When she resigned, the press scrutiny ended.

TabbyMumz · 27/05/2020 12:35

"Then he should do the decent thing, apologise and resign. He hasn't even stuck to the rules governing his role as a Special Advisor!"
As I've said, regardless of his actions, he should not be hounded to do anything. Everyone deserves to be treated with some respect and dignity. What has happened to him is awful. This is worse than what happened to Caroline Flack.

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 27/05/2020 12:38

No TabbyMumz what is awful is 13 year old children dying on their own without their mum or dad with them. Because, you know, rules.
What is awful is all the deaths that could have been prevented had this big brain and the blond flimflam man acted sooner.
I do not think this is a witch hunt or that he is being hounded.
This scrutiny is part of his job.
They both need to go and the sooner the better.

TabbyMumz · 27/05/2020 12:39

"@bigchris- Yes, the fact his son went to hospital makes it even worse. London (where they travelled from) was a hotbed of infection, whereas Durham had not yet seen a large spike in cases. So they potentially took coronavirus to that hospital in Durham. This is precisely why the advice was to stay at home if you had symptoms - not travel across the country"

So he was supposed to not call an ambulance for his son now?

Tomorrowsanewday · 27/05/2020 12:40

@GentleParent, all valid points. I was asking because a poster up thread was implying that the rules didn’t apply to Steven Kinnock because he didn’t help make them.

I agree that people in unique positions should be setting a good example no matter what party they represent.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.