People comparing Cummings to Caroline Flack

[panhandledrama]

I am quite shocked to see a number of posts in the last few days comparing the media treatment of Dominic Cummings to that of Caroline Flack . And how we need to #bekind
Surely there is no comparison! Caroline was a minor celebrity who was hounded due to a domestic incident
Cummings told us as a nation what we can't do and then did it himself while other people lost jobs and couldn't say goodbye to dying loved ones due to sticking to HIS rules. People are outraged that other (labour) mp's have done similar but they aren't the prime ministers puppet master

Surely people can see that these are totally different scenarios and people have a right to be outraged this time!

Actually it’s the opposite. Most of the posters who want him fired are only too aware of his history and record.

Most of the people screeching about hysterical witch hunts and #BeKind are the ones claiming never to watch the news and to have never heard of the man responsible for Brexit who is one of the few individuals ever to be found in Contempt of Parliament.

They are completely different scenarios, and the Caroline Flack comparisons are cynically done. The 'hounding' is only happening because it's astonishing that he has not resigned, or been forced to resign. For those who think he should have gone, what are they supposed to as he's refused and the PM is refusing to budge? Just shrug and go, "oh alright then, as you were".

There are few tools the public have to exert influence, but pressure, expressed through social media rather than letter writing these days, is one of them. DC and BJ have real power. They could end this situation, but they choose not to.

Sky going to his parents, and anyone heckling and calling abuse in the street where he lives, is too much though.

She did something that affected absolutely none of us, immediately and repeatedly apologised profusely for it, lost her job, then continued to be hounded by the press for it. It’s not even remotely similar.

yanbu I am glad there are countless threads about it.
comparing him to CF is deplorable.
he is a liar and he should have been sacked. he is not elected and has too much power.
we do not have to accept this and just shut up. it needs to be discussed and shutting it down and using comparisons to CF is scraping the barrel.

No he didn't tell us. He's not a politician. He's not even a proper civil servant. He's nobody, in terms of responsibility. No matter how big his role in drawing up the rules, it's the politicians he advises on whom 100% of responsibility falls.

He's a policy wonk. He helped to draw up policy. He helped to devise and implement rules which he himself then flouted. Of course he is responsible and accountable. The public pay his wages.

I agree that Boris should take responsibility too though!

@Eskarina1

I really don't care about Dominic Cummings. I care that our prime minister retrospectively clarified the law to allow huge wiggle room which no one else realised they had (nor indeed did the police). It's a huge huge line the Government has crossed and the 'be kind' phrase is being used to shut anger at that down.

^^ This.

No he didn't tell us. He's not a politician. He's not even a proper civil servant. He's nobody, in terms of responsibility

This.

Of course it’s not the same.

If Dominic Cummings had simply admitted to acting stupidly this would have blown over - if journalists had continued to badger him after his apology then that could be called hounding.
He’s behaving like an arrogant, gaslighting prick and deserves to be continually challenged if he refuses to accept the blatant truth and expects to take everyone for a mug and accept his bullshit. I call it taking someone to account - not ‘hounding’. If his boss won’t do it, someone has to.

Eskarina nails it - there is a bigger issue here than DC - the PM has some serious explaining to do.
I think Boris Johnson should resign over this frankly - he shames the position he holds.
And I think the posters who are 'tired' of reading about this need to get a grip quite honestly. If they can't see the enormity of this story they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

To be fair Cummings didn’t tell us what to do, the government did that after scientific/medical advice. However as such a key unofficial member of the Government I think he did break the rules and should fall on his sword

Caroline Flack was going through legal proceedings as a result of what she did. She was already being held accountable, so the press coverage was not particularly for the benefit of anyone.

Whereas Bozo and co have made it extremely clear that Cummings won’t be held accountable for any of it, and Cummings arrogance shows he knows he has nothing to fear. The press coverage pushing for him to have consequences of his actions is arguably for the public interest because we don’t want a society where different rules apply to Boris and his mates

I do wonder how many on here saying particularly nasty things about him will be jumping straight on the bandwagon of #bekind if he did commit suicide over this? Probably a lot or all.

It's situations like this that show how quickly people can be changed in their opinion. Caroline flack was vilified by people on here too, who then no doubt start crying when she died and saying how lovely she was, like they even knew her.

He did a stupid thing, he's never going to apologise for it, he's not going to be sacked. You're wasting your time and energy moaning about it to be honest. Nothing will change, he's too protected. Next time there's a vote, try and remember what the tory party have done, how they clearly view us, and decide if you agree with that or not. That's the only way you can change this. Everything else is pointless.

And I think the posters who are 'tired' of reading about this need to get a grip quite honestly. If they can't see the enormity of this story they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

I wouldn’t go that far, but I do agree that people are underestimate how significant this whole story is. I think the way the public have been expected to swallow a bullshit excuse story and shut up about it sets a dangerous precedent. People in power can’t just spectacularly fuck up, not say sorry, insult everyone’s intelligence, expect everyone to get over it at their say so and carry on as normal. It’s corrupt.

He’s being bullied by the media too.

TheRoyallingStones

so the press coverage was not particularly for the benefit of anyone.

I disagree, it was valid due to so many people twisting what was known of the case in question.

A good friend of mine posted this comparison with BEKIND on Facebook and I find it deeply offensive. I've been sitting on my hands ever since, reminding myself it's not worth losing a friendship over politics... Perhaps a quick rant here will sort me out instead.

CF = media celebrity accused of mistakes in her private life

DC = incredibly powerful advisor to PM who broke the rules he himself made and then doubled down on that decision. He's not just a man on the street or a celebrity on a reality show - he occupies a unique position of power, so his actions have an impact on how the public receive government advice. Public buy-in to social distancing advice is quite literally a matter of life and death at the moment, and his actions (and refusal to admit they were wrong) threaten to undermine that.

I feel sorry for DC's 4 year old son, but more sorry for children who have lost a parent to Clovid. DC's individual happiness (and that of his family) is not more important than the wellbeing of the nation.

It is absolutely right that the media should hold the government to account for their continued support of DC - that's their job. Govt ministers are telling barefaced lies to the public and it's so important that we don't just let that stand. And the criticism isn't just coming from the left - the likes of Daily Mail and rightwing pundits like Juila Hartey Brewer are also disgusted, as are 40+ Tory MPs.

It's really grim that Caroline Flack's suicide is being leveraged in this way. The Be Kind message has been cynically co-opted to dampen down necessary criticism, and well-meaning people are lapping it up and reposting it. Ironically, the longer we take to get Clovid under control, the longer people at risk from suicide will be left without access to the face-to-face support they need.

The best way to Be Kind is still to stay at home.

Glad I've got that off my chest.

100% these situations are so different

Of course it's comparable. They're not comparing the two people, but the way the press is treating them.

Turning up at someone's elderly parents home is never ok. It wouldn't be ok to do that to a criminal's family, a celebrity or a politician.

They are hounding him for breaking lockdown rules whilst simultaneously breaking themselves.

We can all support different parties or different stances on easing lockdown but please, let's not start anymore threads in defence of pieces of shit like the s*n journalists.

Hounding him is not acceptable but it is his decision to remain in post and Bojo's decision to keep him there that has prompted such anger. DC is probably the mastermind behind resurrecting the #BeKind thing - it's what he does.

Read this:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/26/cummings-contempt-lockdown-rules-public-catholic-church-ireland

Also - holding politicians to account and "bullying" are two very different things. DC is telling lies and the proof that his statements are untrue is emerging every day, thanks to robust and determined journalism (eg. the fact he edited an old post on his blog in April to "predict" coronavirus). We need to keep questioning and challenging - what is the alternative? To just let it stand? To accept as a nation that it's OK for our leaders to lie to us?

I don't think anyone would argue that death threats etc are OK, but journalists aren't threatening his life. They are asking him questions. And in some cases, they are doorstepping him to do that - something done to political figures for many many decades.

It upsets me when language and measures put in place to protect vulnerable people are co-opted by those in power to dampen down criticism. There are certainly political figures being bullied (ask any black or asian female MP...), but DC is simply being expected to account for himself. Which he has failed to do adequately or honestly - however much govt ministers tell us that he has. Similarly, the "safeguarding of children" argument, which he is trying to use as a loophole - was there to protect women and children fleeing domestic abuse and children at immediate risk of serious harm. It's sick to see that twisted and used to protect one of the most powerful men in the country.

You only lie to people in this way if you think they are too stupid to figure it out - or too passive to care. People regurgitating this false equivalence between Flack and Cummings without properly scrutinising it are not just letting the government make a mug of the electorate - they're actively helping them.

I think the hashtag thing is over the top, and his actions were a bit borderline, but there is no justification for abuse and harassment.

As someone who now strongly opposes the lockdown, I am angry that he was involved in implimenting such unprecidented curbs on our freedom, yet used 'common sense judgement' when it got tough for him. But the anger needs to be proportionate and properly directed. And because of the travel thing, not Brexit or helping Boris or whatever.

Cummings or at least Downing Street were contacted very soon after his little trip (on Mary's birthday) to Barnard Castle to 'test his eyes'. He or Downing Street refused to answer questions.

They even bandied it about that the man who saw Cummings and Wakefield in Barnard Castle was 'mistaken'. It now turns out he wasn't.

All the way through this Cummings has hidden behind someone's skirt. Downing Street could have stopped the questions immediately by saying he'd done nothing wrong and these were the rules. The reason they didn't is because they didn't want people travelling like he did! Whether he used a legitimate loophole or clause doesn't count for toffee - the worst that would happen is that many people would use the same loophole and they didn't want that.

Cummings hid what he did and was found out. The press were on his doorstep because he was saying the man in Barnard Castle lied effectively. Until the man said he had Cummings' registration number...

Caroline Flack was hounded over something she was already being investigated for. Totally different.

Isn't Mumsnet a vote swinger?

Funniest thing I’ve read on here. Mumsnet always gets it wrong at elections. By miles.

So is it ok to break the rules if we didn’t make the rules?

Dominic Cummings is a bully who thrives on controversy , aggression and intimidation. More than happy to use the media to manipulate and stir up hatred towards others, so can hardly start bleating when he's on the receiving end.