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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Disabled friend not allowed on a teaching training

114 replies

MonaLisaDoesntSmile · 24/05/2020 09:47

An old acquaintance has a very visible physical disability she was born with. She completed her degree and has been holding a part time desk job since graduation. The disability made lots of things limited to some extend, some other things difficult/impossible, but did not stop her from travelling/working/studying.

When we recently spoke she said that last year she had wanted to retrain to do PGCE. She applied and was unsuccessful at all universities (she applied for 3 which are fairly local and would not require a move). In each case, there was some sort of excuse why they thought she would not be a suitable candidate for the course; there was no mention of her disability, but she strongly felt that was the reason why she was not accepted as the feedback was something she could have worked on (get more up to date classroom experience etc) and other candidates she met on the day were accepted despite seemingly being in a similar position (f.ex. mature student with equally no class experience,...).

We found it very unfair if that is the case, but in the back of my mind, I actually started wondering. Teaching is an exhausting job physically, having done it for 10 years I know really well. I have seen many people struggle to keep up, many healthy individuals find it hard; I have seen schools phasing out older teachers and people with long-term illnesses, wanting to replace them with someone they saw as more 'efficient'. She would have found it hard to cope, not mentioning the fact kids can be very cruel. Friend's mum told her maybe it's for the best, as maybe universities protected her against disappointment of not being able to find a job or not being able to cope if she found one. On the other hand- should she have not got a chance at least to do the degree and then look for a job and possibly be successful at it if she worked hard? Is it not unfair to deprive her of a chance to try for herself?
It's not really an AIBU, but I was wondering what people felt.

OP posts:
suggestionsplease1 · 25/05/2020 17:22

OP if your friend is applying again in the future I would tell her to make contact with the university disabilites team in advance to have a chat with them. Normally prior to interview there is contact asking if support is required at interview for any reason anyway. She may not need this, but it may well help her to signal her disability - the more overt she is about it, the harder it will be for people to use it to discriminate against her.

I guess the flip side to this is there will probably be in depth discussion about the nature and impact of her disabilities and if she will be able to complete the qualification independently - but wouldn't she want ascertain this for herself anyway, rather than slip by onto course and then really struggle and possibly waste her time?

ElizabethMainwaring · 26/05/2020 05:16

It's absolutely true about the dropout rate on my course. It was absolutely outrageous. It was very much the elephant in the room when we in the university, which was rarely. The official line was that people were deferring until next year because of health and personal reasons.
It was a very tough course. Some of the lecturers were under par and the marking of essays was all over the shop. It was very, very stressful. It completely took over my life. If I'd had my own children or any other responsibilities I could not have done it. I did an MA, and it was honestly a hundred times more difficult than that.

ElizabethMainwaring · 26/05/2020 07:53

Another factor was that the university took on more students that year than previous years (there was originally 120 of us).
Due to this they really struggled to get the placements needed. Some people had placements 50 miles away and rightly decided that it was ridiculous. There were also quite a few naïve and entitled people on the course who didn't really have much clue about the realities of teaching.

@BumpBundle

mummymathsteacher · 26/05/2020 08:39

I am involved in pgce interviews. Our feedback will recommend actions but does not explicitly say why you were rejected. This means that we may have rejected a candidate because they gave poor interview questions, but our recommendation would be that they get more school experience so that they have something to base their responses on.

Type of experience can also make a difference. If you have lots of experience abroad, for example, you may be great with kids but have no understanding of the school system and curriculum. Sometimes these are given places but advised to get more experience anyway. Ultimately though, we are not allowed to reject a candidate for lack of experience if they have clear potential. And contrary to other views, PGCE places are significantly less competitive than 10 years ago.

Has your friend asked to see the written feedback? We make extensive notes and score various parts of the day. These could all be viewed by candidates if requested. This might make any reasons for rejection clearer.

Personally, I have offered places to people with a range of disabilities. On the whole, I think PGCE course providers are very supportive and willing to make adjustments but that doesn't mean your friend is wrong about her particular application.

Just wanted to add that while schools legally have to make adjustments, be aware that many will find this "challenging". Many primary schools do not have adequate disabled access or toilets. Many secondary schools require frequent room movements. Realistically schools with drastically reduced budgets will struggle to pay for a full time assistant. As I say to every student, the ethos and leadership of a school is hugely important. There are some brilliant schools who would be very happy to make extensive adjustments for a good teacher.

Sorry your friend didn't get a place this year. Please don't let that her give up on teaching altogether.

floppyhare · 26/05/2020 11:12

Another factor was that the university took on more students that year than previous years (there was originally 120 of us).
Due to this they really struggled to get the placements needed. Some people had placements 50 miles away and rightly decided that it was ridiculous.

@Elizabethmainwaring I wonder if you are talking about the same university that DD's friend went to, she said exactly the same thing before she left the PGCE.

ElizabethMainwaring · 26/05/2020 11:23

@Floppyhare
I've pm'ed you!

floppyhare · 26/05/2020 11:24

@Elizabethmainwaring Replied!

BobbinThreadbare123 · 26/05/2020 11:51

I'm wondering if I also went to that university.... 50 miles to drive for a placement wasn't even the worst (mine were both well over 40 miles from where I lived at the time).

floppyhare · 26/05/2020 12:05

MN says you aren't accepting PMs so you'll never know!

ElizabethMainwaring · 26/05/2020 12:13

@Floppyhare
Mumsnet is talking rubbish then!
I've read your message and replied!
How odd.
Thank you!

floppyhare · 26/05/2020 12:15

Sorry that was @bobbinthreadbare123 not you - I know you can have PMs Grin

ketchupandmayo · 26/05/2020 12:16

I was told I wasn't successful due to lack of classroom experience. I went and got more classroom experience and was successful

BobbinThreadbare123 · 26/05/2020 13:07

I've sent you a PM to prove I can get them - I'm cool! I'm in the club Grin

ElizabethMainwaring · 26/05/2020 14:21

Well. It appears that there are a lot of shite course providers.
Anyone had any positive experiences?

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