Disabled friend not allowed on a teaching training

[MonaLisaDoesntSmile]

An old acquaintance has a very visible physical disability she was born with. She completed her degree and has been holding a part time desk job since graduation. The disability made lots of things limited to some extend, some other things difficult/impossible, but did not stop her from travelling/working/studying.

When we recently spoke she said that last year she had wanted to retrain to do PGCE. She applied and was unsuccessful at all universities (she applied for 3 which are fairly local and would not require a move). In each case, there was some sort of excuse why they thought she would not be a suitable candidate for the course; there was no mention of her disability, but she strongly felt that was the reason why she was not accepted as the feedback was something she could have worked on (get more up to date classroom experience etc) and other candidates she met on the day were accepted despite seemingly being in a similar position (f.ex. mature student with equally no class experience,...).

We found it very unfair if that is the case, but in the back of my mind, I actually started wondering. Teaching is an exhausting job physically, having done it for 10 years I know really well. I have seen many people struggle to keep up, many healthy individuals find it hard; I have seen schools phasing out older teachers and people with long-term illnesses, wanting to replace them with someone they saw as more 'efficient'. She would have found it hard to cope, not mentioning the fact kids can be very cruel. Friend's mum told her maybe it's for the best, as maybe universities protected her against disappointment of not being able to find a job or not being able to cope if she found one. On the other hand- should she have not got a chance at least to do the degree and then look for a job and possibly be successful at it if she worked hard? Is it not unfair to deprive her of a chance to try for herself?
It's not really an AIBU, but I was wondering what people felt.

Tbh I think the disability coupled with the lack of classroom experience is what has caused your griend to be rejected, but since they cannot reject her on the disability outright they have had to lean heavily on the "lack of experience" angle.

I can kind of understand their reluctance as your friend has no classroom experience so can't know how much their disability may affect their ability to do the job and what adjustments they will need. Yes able bodied candidates who have no experience may end up struggling/dropping out because they just aren't suited to the job, but you will always get a few people who just can't stay the course on any training scheme so they are probably more willing to take that risk than for the candidate that they have to put in XYZ extra support measures for, only for them to drop out as soon as they step into a classroom and realise they didnt know how difficult and demanding the job actually is in practice.

If she had some experience then she could go into her interviews and tell them catagorically that she knows how her disability will/won't affect her ability to do the job and what (if any) adjustment she might need, with the evidence of the classroom experience to back it up. That way she is bring proactive about maximising her chance of being accepted as she is showing the interviewer that she is serious about making it a career and knows she will have limitations other candidates will not and is realistic about what she can do and what support/adjustments she will need. Also if she has experience then she can categorically go in and state what she needs based on practical experience, if she has never been in a classroom then she doesnt know what support she will need or she may even go in and assume she will need no/minimal adjustments which the interviewer may interpret as her having rose tinted glasses about how easy the job is that she doesn't fully understand the job.

I work in a different industry

I've seen it happen in other situations, where for whatever reason unknown to me ( someone else's decision) that someone has unfairly not been given a chance to do something.
A case of a job or opportunity for a friend
Or
Jobs for the boys (not female)
Or
Other reasons

Sometimes you just have to be lucky or in the right place, at the right time

My experience is in healthcare, not education, but people with limited experience often don't interview well because they have no scenarios draw on.^
^
For a^ question like can you tell me about a time you had to give feedback, how did you approach it?^ It is easier to achieve a higher score if you have relevant experience to draw on and an understanding of the relevant competencies.

Would she be willing to work as a TA for a year before reapplying? I don't normally recommend this, as I think they are fundamentally different jobs, but I think it could be really helpful for her to get a very clear sense of what classroom life involves.

It is quite competitive, you have to do a lot to show real enthusiasm and gain as much classroom experience as possible. Also, other experience working with children could also help her application, perhaps she could volunteer to help with local groups in some way?

I find it very difficult to believe people are getting places on teaching post grad courses with zero classroom experience

Nope, even for primary many this cycle have accepted people with zero classroom experience, and lots of institutions still have places.

@YerAWizardHarry depending on location and subject, some secondary is not that competitive for uni places. My subject has been heavily undersubscribed for years and plenty of providers have free places well into the summer on regular basis. Plus looking at the amount of really unsuitable PGCE candidates I have seen, criteria are not the highest. It's competitive, but not so that every candidate has years of experience under their belt.

depending on location and subject, some secondary is not that competitive for uni places

and some is very competitive- secondary PE for example.

Even if she can't practice they still have to let her undertake the course. Former disabilities manager at a uni.

Plenty of bad teachers without disabilities
Indeed, but sadly her disability means that her ability to improve is very limited.

Poor performing teachers can be dismissed, she couldn't without much trouble and risking being sued.

What about TEFL or equivalent, teach English or maths to children or adults in home country or online to people abroad

What about exam marking

@SunflowerSeedsForever I know. But you're missing the point, this was not the case for my friend last year in a subject that is very much a shortage subject, at unis which did not fill in all the places by the end of the recrutation window.

As someone who is starting a PGCE this year, I think the likely reasons for rejection are the ones given. One of the universities I applied to rejected me with the same explanation - other applicants with better experience, and I am someone who had been volunteering on a weekly basis at a school for a full academic year. That uni was one that has an extremely oversubscribed course and they can't offer interviews to everyone who meets the entry requirements. Some people who exceed them, and have good experience will just get rejected purely because they have so many applicants who all read the same way on paper.

As someone who is starting a PGCE this year, I think the likely reasons for rejection are the ones given. One of the universities I applied to rejected me with the same explanation - other applicants with better experience, and I am someone who had been volunteering on a weekly basis at a school for a full academic year. That uni was one that has an extremely oversubscribed course and they can't offer interviews to everyone who meets the entry requirements. Some people who exceed them, and have good experience will just get rejected purely because they have so many applicants who all read the same way on paper.

I know people who have been applying for 2/3 years who are still getting rejected WITH experience and meeting the entry requirements. If your friend has no classroom experience she needs to address that and reapply.

Great teacher I'll be if I'm daft enough to copy and paste the same paragraph twice while editing my post

@Dawn0ft0m0rr0w Some good ideas, I will suggestt to her. Not sure if she can do these, there is a market for jobs in her subject, but I am not as sure about TEFL around where she lives and because of the disability she is not likely to move abroad, although she does travel- but she wants to be around family in case she needs help with anything, which complicates things if she would to move elsewhere.
TEFL would probably be more suited to what she could do though, so will let her know to look it up, it could be a good compromise.

I've worked with people from different countries. Whilst they can speak English, some people may need assistance with the local dialect/local sayings or sense of humour

Also some people come to UK to work & may bring their families, who don't speak good English

Some others in need too

I'm a lawyer and my OH is a teacher - I also have a PGCE and used to be a teacher and I'm disabled so I think I have a bit of expertise on this.
Children are the priority when it comes to selecting teachers. If her disability would prevent her from being a good teacher then she shouldn't be a teacher. It's a harsh reality but children are the priority. Imagine how you would feel if your child didn't achieve the grades they needed because their teacher was not able to teach affectively? Equally, imagine if your child were injured or unsupervised (or insufficiently supervised) due to the disability of a member of staff. If her disability does not impact her ability to teach then this is discrimination and is a violation of the Equality Act 2010.

I said: It'd be worth her bearing in mind that a lot of smaller settings are tiny village schools which may be even harder for her to work in - my DCs were at a small village school with no staff car park (they park on the road) and in a Victorian building.*

@mintymabel reply was:

Just as well no disabled children go to school, otherwise the Local Authorities would have to adapt those schools to make them accessible. Unless the equalities act was all just a big hoax and LAs aren't duty bound to make their school estates accessible.

I was referring to staff - lack of car parking, staff room and staff toilets upstairs (though there is a disabled toilet downstairs). For children it's all accessible but not for staff - as you'd know if you'd read my post without wildly jumping to conclusions. The whole thread is about teachers with disabilities and not children having access to schools. Do keep up.

Poor performing teachers can be dismissed

It’s rare for poor performing teachers to be dismissed.

Don’t perpetuate the myth that employers are afraid of sacking people with disabilities.

I was referring to staff - lack of car parking, staff room and staff toilets upstairs

Because a lack of parking isn’t a problem for pupils.

It’s a thread about accessibility in schools, a school estate must be accessible to pupils and therefore would be to staff too. Do keep up,

I completely agree with beesbeesbees.

I taught in two Victorian schools that had received adaptations to make them accessible to pupils and parents, but would have been extremely difficult for a wheelchair-using member of staff. One school had:

Staffroom up a tiny spiral staircase
Teaching resources area up another staircase
One single toilet (not a disabled toilet) for any adult on site
Very small rooms and high-shelved storage cupboards that would be almost impossible to manoeuvre in a wheelchair.

Pupils and teachers need to use different areas of the school at times. It may not follow that the staff areas have been adapted or made accessible.

@jerometheturnipking I think she felt a bit jaded as most people on the interview did not have the experience. She mentioned a few mature students who were coming back to work after being SAHM for a time and not having any experience in schools and a few people who have not even completed the demanded the week or two week observation period in schools but had it lined up, and who got a place.
I just go by what she said about feeling about the feedback- is that the decisive factor was not the experience, but her disability, and if she was abled, than the outcome would not have been the same, at least not in the three consecutive cases.

If your friend now has more experience can you help her practice or prep for interviewing? It's possible it could be her disability but a factor to also consider is her interviewing and answers. I appreciate she says she interviewed well but I've heard a lot of candidates say that and i can categorically say no they didn't. They didn't demonstrate competencies, show confidence in their abilities to a good extent, some came across arrogant and one dismissive due to nervousness.

She has the experience, check her technique and presence and if still she gets turned down for similar reasons she has a strong case for challenging it

@ElizabethMainwaring Your course had two thirds drop out!??!?! That's completely absurd!! My course had no one drop out and my husband's had one person drop out but that was because they didn't get a 2:2 in their degree but because they did their exams in August they didn't know if they had a 2:2 or a third until the course had already started. My course did have one person switch from full time to part time after a couple of months but still... Why on earth was the drop out rate so high?!

We must have lost about a third of the people on my PGCE, maybe more. Fewer than half are still teaching now (I'm not).

According to official statistics, only 8% of people who start a PGCE drop out or fail (we all know almost no one can fail) so I'm not sure why your providers have such high drop out rates... The highest I can find it to have been since 2000 was 15%.