Disabled friend not allowed on a teaching training

[MonaLisaDoesntSmile]

An old acquaintance has a very visible physical disability she was born with. She completed her degree and has been holding a part time desk job since graduation. The disability made lots of things limited to some extend, some other things difficult/impossible, but did not stop her from travelling/working/studying.

When we recently spoke she said that last year she had wanted to retrain to do PGCE. She applied and was unsuccessful at all universities (she applied for 3 which are fairly local and would not require a move). In each case, there was some sort of excuse why they thought she would not be a suitable candidate for the course; there was no mention of her disability, but she strongly felt that was the reason why she was not accepted as the feedback was something she could have worked on (get more up to date classroom experience etc) and other candidates she met on the day were accepted despite seemingly being in a similar position (f.ex. mature student with equally no class experience,...).

We found it very unfair if that is the case, but in the back of my mind, I actually started wondering. Teaching is an exhausting job physically, having done it for 10 years I know really well. I have seen many people struggle to keep up, many healthy individuals find it hard; I have seen schools phasing out older teachers and people with long-term illnesses, wanting to replace them with someone they saw as more 'efficient'. She would have found it hard to cope, not mentioning the fact kids can be very cruel. Friend's mum told her maybe it's for the best, as maybe universities protected her against disappointment of not being able to find a job or not being able to cope if she found one. On the other hand- should she have not got a chance at least to do the degree and then look for a job and possibly be successful at it if she worked hard? Is it not unfair to deprive her of a chance to try for herself?
It's not really an AIBU, but I was wondering what people felt.

Two of our old au pairs went onto teaching courses after the stayed with us. Both had to do an extensive amount of teaching experience in order to get onto a course. She's not going to be taken seriously if she doesn't have that

I had a years experience teaching as an unqualified teacher before I applied for mine and I still got rejected on lack of classroom experience from a top uni.

Was she even making it through to interview stage, if not, I reckon she really needs to get more classroom experience. A large part of teaching is taking feedback in a positive way and using it to better yourself, so that's what she needs to do here.

It’s easy for someone to pull the disable card when turned down for training/jobs. It happens when women get turned down or someone of a different race, but it’s important to also look at the wider picture. There could be any combination of reasons, and unless she asks for feedback, it’s not helpful for her to presume her disability is the reason why.

It's difficult to get onto teacher training courses.

Has she asked for feedback on her interviews? They will tell her what's missing from her application, such as lack of experience working/volunteering with children, subject knowledge or understanding of what it's like to work in a school. People I know have spent one day a week volunteering in a school for a year, or working as a TA, to get a place on a course. If she's committed to being a teacher, she can work on this and apply next year.

Most people who access a primary PGCE have extensive classroom experience, very many have worked as TAs (8 of our TAs start ITT this year). The rest have usually done a long volunteer placement. As an example my DD had done a month age 16, 6 weeks age 18, a term placement as part fo undergrad and 2 terms full time volunteering- that isn't unusual.

She could try school direct through a teaching school alliance.

@pintsizedblondie197 My son has Arthrogryposis affecting both his arms, he’s decided in the past year he wants to be a FE science teacher (he’s in secondary so not an immediate thing) are you in FE or secondary? I just want him to have a realistic idea of how hard he may find it to get a job. Our college near us has several lecturers who have a disability but I know how horrible teenagers can be. I teach in a PRU - he wanted to volunteer when old enough, I’ve told him no.

(ps sorry OP for adding this into your post)

It’s easy for someone to pull the disable card when turned down for training/jobs. It happens when women get turned down or someone of a different race

Gosh, hello, old-style discrimination. I didn't think anyone was thick enough to still use the expression 'race card'.

OP, I'm an academic and quite a few of my students down the years have gone on to PGCE courses. It is of course perfectly possible your friend is being discriminated against because of her disability, but PGCEs at well-regarded institutions are certainly now ferociously competitive, and I've definitely seen able-bodied students with a decent 2.1 and classroom experience of various kinds be rejected.

@Batmanandbobbin I'm in primary.

I feel very uncomfortable reading this thread, because although I agree that she probably did get rejected due to lack of teaching experience, I can anticipate the difficulties that she might have in getting and keeping a teaching job.

I found primary teaching pretty physical work, especially in more challenging schools and with younger year groups. Lifting boxes of equipment, moving stuff in and out of storage cupboards and TAs definitely weren't always around to do that for you. That's before you get to the need to occasionally lift/hold/carry children or break up fights! I hope that an equality-minded school would provide a disabled teacher with a full-time PA, including for the before and after school period, but I can see a recruitment panel finding that a difficult ask if another equally-good candidate is also sitting in front of them.

Schools are not the fair and tolerant employers that many people would like them to be. In my experience they don't deal well with illness, bereavement, mental health issues, pregnancy and anything that renders a teacher less than effective for a period of time.

I think that F.E teaching might be the way to go. Lots of colleges recruit trainees to work and qualify on the job. Plus the different approach to timetabling means that teaching sessions are more spread-out and she might find that more manageable.

@Pintsizedblondie197 thank you! I forgot about primary needing supplies too (mainly because my younger sons primary never using them), apologies for my assumptions it must be older kids!

I’m slightly struggling to understand how someone who doesn’t have any classroom experience would arrive at the decision to do a PGCE. It doesn’t speak loudly of a passion for teaching.

I would be very taken aback if there had been discrimimation - providers absolutely do not want to be challenged under the Equality Act. Enlightened providers will recognise that an expert teacher with a disability may be well placed to empathise with the children that they teach.

Depends on the disability tbh.

My friend's son is a wheelchair user and he also teaches. But he's also very fit and can find ways around most things / plays wheelchair basketball professionally.

If her disability means she's going to be massively held back from being able to perform a lot of tasks or take a lot of time off due to illness then teaching may not be for her.

With the number of people here who think someone in a wheelchair is inherently incapable of dealing with anything, I’m not surprised your friend is assuming she is being judged because of her disability.

Sad to see the same old ignorant nonsense trotted out, especially the good old “disable card” shit.

Your friend needs to seek proper feedback. Teaching courses are popular and difficult to get in to. It may be her experience isn’t enough, or her grades. It might seem like the person next to her is exactly the same except for the disability but that is rarely the case. She won’t know until she gets proper feedback.

If her disability means she's going to be massively held back from being able to perform a lot of tasks or take a lot of time off due to illness then teaching may not be for her.

Thankfully the equalities act disagrees.

the feedback was something she could have worked on (get more up to date classroom experience etc)
Well here you go, she didn't have all they were looking for. Most prospective employer look for skills and experience already gained, not that they expect to gain in employment.

She didn't know what skills and experience all other candidates have and even if indeed, they were all at the exact same level, maybe they interviewed better.

She might feel they discriminated against her because of her disability, but that's all what it us, a feel. Maybe right, maybe wrong.

This is such a difficult one, and I wouldn't be surprised if the disability was on the radar for those interviewing but certainly not alluded to in the reasons why she was rejected (they would obviously be opening an entire can of wormds for themselves if they did that).

I do some disabilities advising work in a similar context. When taken on a course a student must be able to independently achieve the competencies required in the qualification - the university is effectively certifying that they have done this, and they could be called to account if they qualify someone who has not.

So for example, I worked with a student who had a pronounced visual impairment and wanted to do a a childcare qualification. We established the extent of her disability and the requirements of her course and placement, and what the course was qualifying her to be able to do. One of the standards was to be able to safely supervise a certain number of children on her own, and it was clear from the extent of her visual impairment that she would not be able to achieve this. She asked about having a support worker with her, but this would mean the support worker was performing a key competence rather than the individual looking to achieve the qualification, so it was not a remedy and the student could not be accepted on course.

There was another student with an even more pronounced visual impairment wanting to do a maths qualification to meet the requirements to get into teacher training. We were certainly able to accommodate her in every respect, by having a classroom support worker, getting assistive technologies, magnifiers etc, sorting exam arrangements to remove barriers - because she only needed to demonstrate her ability in the maths and we could find ways of allowing her to do this. Now I don't know what happened next for her, as she could meet new hurdles when as the core competencies changed as she progressed in the qualfications - but our specific remit and obligation to her was for that individual maths qualification. She was an extremely intelligent woman and I'm sure had considered future barriers she might face.

So with these situations you really need to examine the full implications of the disability and the full requirements of the qualification, including if there are more unusual ways to demonstrate achievement of these. Then the organisation can work out whether a student can be accepted on course.

I don't know that it is really the organisation's job to think further ahead than that, about jobs etc, although they can casually chat about ramifications so the student is fully aware of future hurdles they might face. But this is really the next rung of the ladder for the individual to negotiate themselves with employees etc.

And just to add, my DD had a teacher who had severe disabilities. Sadly, her disability made her a very poor teacher, the worse both my children had. It was really bad. It wasn't her fault in any way, but it had significant impact on her class GCSEs results. The school gave her the top set class, yet the class performed significantly worse than the middle set, and just slightly above the lower one.

The school did everything to help, other teachers offered tutoring sessions, they provided a lot of supervising and support, even external but the reality is that she just couldn't perform her duties but the school was scared to dismiss her because of the legal protection.

DD got 7 and 8s in all her subjects but a 5 in that one despite being predicted an 8. It was hard to show sympathy.

I think there could be a lot of reasons why she got rejected. She doesn't have much teaching experience, it doesn't sound like she can show that she knows what she's getting into or has a passion for it.
Do you know the details of those who got in on this application cycle without experience?
They may have similar amounts of classroom experience, but have done other things. (eg worked in summer camps or on PGL, volunteered with sports groups or extra curricular activities). They may have better qualifications - GCSEs, degrees etc. They may just interview better.
There could be lots of non disability reasons why your friend didn't get it.

Our physics teacher at secondary school used a wheelchair. Never thought anything of it at the time, for some reason. We were all fixated on his funny name. Which wasn't even that funny! It was Chamois, so we called him Mr Clean... ¯\(ツ)/¯

Sadly, her disability made her a very poor teacher, the worse both my children had.

Plenty of bad teachers without disabilities. And plenty of good teachers with them. One anecdote doesn’t mean anything.

I would think primary would be a bit of a faff with a disability because of the sheer energy of 30 small kids in the room

I forgot that disability means you can't deal with anything remotely challenging! Better tell my boss that I can't manage a youth club of 30+ kids of different ages any more! Should really hand back my degree and post grad diploma too!

@WhatwouldLangdo

Time to give it all up and live off all those fantastic benefits. 😉

@Whynotnowbaby I worked in a school this year and lead a few sessions for new PGCEs. Most of them had very little experience in the classroom prior to the course. A few came from totally different professions (business, long term unemployment, IT) and literally have only done some classroom observations after already getting an offer. According to friend, this was the case on her interview- she was interviewed three times, each time in a pool of 10-15 people on the day (not all for the same subject, but across a variety), so got to do a lot of chatting about other people's backgrounds, and most people did not have extensive experience in the classroom.

@BillysMyBunny She got more experience since and reapplied, but felt a bit down as her impression was (she was there during the interview) that it seems the feedback was there for the sake of it, as they would not tell her to her face it's not the exact reason why she did not get a place as it was easier to just say that than that the reason is the disability.

@Moondust001 My PGCE had a few people with health issues of various sorts, most of them dropped out before the end of the first half-term, I suppose maybe some universities are less and less keen to accept candidates with long term conditions/disabilities to get more 'able-bodied' candidates through the door. I don't know. I know from school side's perspective, I have seen people being treated very unfairly in the event of illnesses and unkeen to provide adjustements as it can be costly- hence friend thought that maybe the feedback was a way to gently discourage her from pursuing the course.