To think the future for women in the work place is looking pretty bleak at the moment?

[KittyRainbow]

Just that really. While I understand why certain measures are being taken to slow the spread of C19. I am struggling with how much more it is affecting me than my husband.

We both work full time, and have 3 DC (nursery, primary and early secondary age) We have always had a pretty equal approach to childcare, taking turns with sick days, appointments etc but he does earn 3 times what I do (despite me having more education and better qualifications than him)

My eldest (12) will not be going back to school until September and we have been told that it will likely be part time in school, part time learning at home.
Likewise my middle, who starts reception in September. Again we've been told it will likely be part time. My youngest attends 2 childcare settings. She is only allowed to return to one for now and neither can take her full time.

My husband is due back at work from furlough FT from June 1st. My work have been great, I am currently working FT at home and they've been very understanding so far (helps that he's been on furlough as he has been able to take the children away for conference calls etc) and have no concerns about me being lone carer from June.

BUT they've said that they will expect people to be back in the office from Sept. Most of my colleagues are men and are fine with that.

I will not be able to do that unless schools and nurseries go back FT. Almost every woman I know is in the same boat. Even my secondary age child will need input at home. There is 0 chance she will sit and do school work if she is left at home alone. The smaller two obviously need constant supervision. Husband's work cannot be done from home. Mine can but not with the children around.

AIBU to think that all of the PT school/childcare etc is going to affect women far more than men, and to think that moving forward we will see a trend towards far less women in the workplace?

Are women choosing to disadvantage themselves when they get paid less for doing the same job or?

What @Devlesko says! You’re articulating my thoughts on this issue so much better than I ever can. I agree 100%.

Yes for people like hair dresses, shop workers etc this def affects women more as cant return as cant afford nursery etc and they arent key workers so cant send to school. Men just go to work. So def agree. I'm a nurse for a private firm.and I'm.working from home. 10 yr old does her own work if struggles with maths I leave it and say to sumdog and tt rockstars. The 5 year old isn't allowed bk to reception b4 September as school have said no reception children. I cant send school as a keyworker working from home so they wont accept her. Husband earns less than me working in science. We both have degrees he had a biomedical degree I have an a nursing degree.

What do you and your husband do for him to earn x3 your salary x

Oh well, that's all fine then. Lots of working mums will lose their jobs and it'll be entirely their own fault for not getting to and maintaining a salary on which the household can live/being assertive enough about their expectation that their partner (if they have one) resist all social conditioning. Even in London (what's the average house price? About £400k?) It's fortunate not many women work as teachers, HCP or carers, isn't it? Or pay tax? Wait...

Being reliant on both incomes is not the same as needing both.
God didn't just point his finger at people and say I'll make you able to live on 20k, but you over there have to earn 60k, oh, and you there it's 15k for you.

@TrustTheGeneGenie a lot of women don’t push themselves forward to get paid what they are worth, but ultimately it’s all one and the same issue. If you don’t prioritise yourself and your career of course you will earn less than the males in your life, both partners and colleagues.

If you’re not earning what your male counterparts are then find another employer who will pay you what you’re worth. If you’re as good and valuable employee as your male colleagues are then I think most employers will pay you accordingly if they know the alternative is losing you.

And part of being as valuable employee as the men is about only taking 50% of the sickness pick ups etc. If you show an employer that you’re singlehandedly carrying the load at home then they know you’re not worth as much to them as an employee.

Sometimes it's not about lifestyle benefits sometimes its about paying your mortgage and feeding your kids. Must be nice to live such a privileged life that all you consider is "lifestyle benefits"

Home ownership and having children are lifestyle benefits! It must be nice to be in a position where you can take them for granted as anything other than that. Plenty of single people haven't a hope of getting on the housing ladder or affording children.

I also agree with lacking progression in women. I have been asked about doing my prescribing degree but cba as to tired looking after kids and its hardwork. But would be gr8 on my cv and open so many doors. I am hoping to be accepted for the cbt course tho which is online so easy to do. Afterwards I may do the full 1 yr course so I'd be a CBT practitioner/ RGN

Home ownership and having children are lifestyle benefits! It must be nice to be in a position where you can take them for granted as anything other than that. Plenty of single people haven't a hope of getting on the housing ladder or affording children

Kids aren't like a car lease that you can give back when times are hard though are they your viewpoint is laughable.

I suppose it's all the single people's own fault they cant get on the ladder though isn't it? Bad choices and all that.

What a fucking joke

I see @Rainycloudyday so there's no such thing as sexism just women not trying hard enough [grin

I find it disgraceful that any woman thinks like that. So much for feminism.

Being reliant on both incomes is not the same as needing both.
God didn't just point his finger at people and say I'll make you able to live on 20k, but you over there have to earn 60k, oh, and you there it's 15k for you

Eh what?

It's generally more to do with where you live than anything else. I don't know what point you're trying to make.

I suppose it's all the single people's own fault they cant get on the ladder though isn't it? Bad choices and all that.

The farce that is house pricing in the UK is a topic for another thread. However, a single woman supporting herself has a better chance of advancing her career than one who steps back from her career to let her partner be the main earner while she parents their children - so from the point of view of reducing income disparity between the sexes, remaining single is an excellent choice.

You might not be able to force a man to take equal responsibility for his kids but refusing to settle for one that won’t is a start. And if they say they will and then don’t, no one is forcing you to hang around.

Unfortunately many men don't announce that they're going to abdicate responsiblity for their kids until you've actually had them. And being a single parent and dealing with everything alone is even worse and more expensive.

remaining single is an excellent choice

I don't agree with that.

I was working part time in a professional role using 13 hours childcare a day to do 11 hour days in the office, pre COVID.

Now I’m wfh half days and at the weekend (DH covering home education/ childcare for those hours), failing to deliver the amount and quality of work I used to do in 33ish hours a week in 22ish hours per week. Unsurprisingly. I will take a significant career hit from this time, just as I’d got back to where I was before long mat leaves (my choice) and going part time (also my choice).

DH has a much sympathetic employer, and as far as he can tell is not taking a career hit for taking the time to cover my working hours. He is also not being performance assessed this quarter (I am) and is being encouraged to take paid leave if necessary (while I am being encouraged to think of the impact on my boss and my team of taking time off).

I don’t know if it’s sex based or just different employers - but the difference is stark.

@TabbyStar fully agree. But as I said, I’d rather ditch a man who let me down like that and if I’m going to struggle work-wise, I’d rather do it as a single parent than in a marriage to someone who doesn’t share my values and has betrayed me in that way.

Sorry, took me so long to type that ^ that the thread had moved on.

My husband and I had this conversation earlier. It's so lucky for me that I left my job to be a sahm. I was supposed to be looking for a job now. But I wouldnt have been able to work due to lack of childcare. My husband's an essential worker, and has worked throughout the lockdown on a rotating shift.

If your partner has been working from home why is he allowing his employer to make him go back on 1st june? Are the govt likely to change the message from if you can you must work from home at that point?

Yout work arent being great. They're being sensible and pragmatic. Employers who are making people return to the office unnecessarily are risking more disruption than letting staff work from home.

Yes for people like hair dresses, shop workers etc this def affects women more as cant return as cant afford nursery etc and they arent key workers so cant send to school. Men just go to work. So def agree.

Men that work in bars, shops, big production plants? they can all go to work can they?

And, looking at it another way... the men working in hospitals 'having it easy' going to work, whilst the disadvantaged having to stay at home have it hard?

You can't cherry pick examples to make it look like women suffer and men don't at the hands on the Covid crisis.

Lots of employers have allowed folks to work from home knowing it's less than ideal (for some jobs), but there comes a point when they need things back up and running.

For some, yes, it's been an eye-opener about how productive working from home can be, but for others, it's not a long term solution for the business to run effectively.

The longer the restrictions apply, the more strain many businesses are under, and some are reaching a critical point where they need to get at least some folks back into the office.

We decided 15 years ago we would want family. So bought a house based on only one wage (or 2 part time wages). Lived in a much smaller house than our peers, less holidays and no new cars, take aways etc. Our 'spare ' wage money went into savings. Kids came along and it was no hardship for me to stop work for 5 years. If we didn't have kids we could retire early or change lifestyle to enjoy more material things. Life is a choice, you staete

..... you started making choices from school.

If, in households where the man is the main earner, more people were prepared to take a drop in household income to allow the male to take on the main carer/housekeeping role, thus giving the lower female earner a chance to build her career and eventually surpass her male partner in earning, things would very gradually change.

But that only works if both partners are in the same career (or at least careers with similar prospects for promotion and similar wages at the same stages in career progression). If you are a nurse and your husband is an investment banker then his earning 'potential' will always be better than yours. It doesn't matter if you are the best most highly paid nurse in the country, it just will.

Now when you have to chose one of you to give up your job. With all of the bills still to pay. Do you chose your job, because it's just as important as his (and it is! Perhaps even more so) or his, which means that you can still pay for all of the things that are 'your life'.

(Sorry couple too many drinks to think of less stereotypical jobs)

Now when you have to chose one of you to give up your job. With all of the bills still to pay. Do you chose your job, because it's just as important as his (and it is! Perhaps even more so) or his, which means that you can still pay for all of the things that are 'your life'.

You choose

A) sacrifice your career, have kids, keep lifestyle
B) sacrifice his career, have kids, change lifestyle
C) keep both careers, no kids, keep lifestyle

All three options were there - you chose option A, and this is where it took you. It was your choice, as was a lower earning career, so i don't think it's fair to blame society for it now.

Side note - we're all suffering under Covid19, there are no winners.