That it’s women who are still locked down?

[Sadie789]

My DH goes back to work next week and rightly so, long overdue in my opinion.

However, I can’t go back to work as with two young DC we have no childcare and it’s not possible to do my job from home.

Under normal circumstances without childcare it wouldn’t really be an issue as there would be classes and clubs and play parks and soft plays and friends to meet up with, so a full weekly schedule out and about with things to do.

I can’t take them to the supermarket or round the shops either, no grandparents allowed etc.

As it stands none of these things are available nor are likely to be for a while, so for me my situation has not changed from the initial lockdown - stay at home, go out for exercise (weather permitting).

Meanwhile my DH and the Hs of my friends are all back at work out of the house living normal days. At the weekends the golf is back on so that’s a leisure option.

Many of my friends are also trying to work from home while looking after children, some also homeschooling older ones.

Women who don’t have children are also on the back foot as many of the professions which are traditionally female - hair and beauty, retail, hospitality - remain closed and will be for some time.

Meanwhile men are back in the workplace. When furlough ends it will be those who are able to present for work and give all their attention to their job who are preferred by employers. Recruitment will be skewed by this too. It’s the traditionally male industries that are able to return earlier- outdoor and manual work.

When it does return childcare is likely to be limited in hours and more expensive- Scotland has quietly dropped the 30 free hours from
August that were going to make it financially viable for me to work. Now it’s going to be a matter of me earning a couple of hundred pounds extra per month instead of nearly £1000 that was previously the case.

I am far from a feminist, but it feels like any equality women had gained is being seriously eroded by lockdown and the exit strategy that has deftly avoided any conversation around how women, especially with younger children, are getting the raw deal.

Every mum here was once a girl, who in this country receive an education and could study towards and train in almost anything a boy could

Nope, I was excluded from certain classes and types of training by virtue of being female and I'm some way off retirement age. Women were excluded and continue to be excluded from areas by social convention/culture long after the equality act was passed.

I knew plenty of girls who had to leave school at the first opportunity because their fathers didn't believe it was worth educating girls. In other cases where a family could only afford the "good" school uniform for some children the boys were prioritised.

Other areas just make it incredibly difficult for women to progress by operating a work culture which assumes no childcare responsibilities, within a culture which still places all responsibility for caring upon women.

You can't seperate people's choices from the societal pressures they face.

The expectations are different. Can you imagine this story if the roles were reversed? www.thelily.com/i-had-to-choose-being-a-mother-with-no-child-care-or-summer-camps-women-are-being-edged-out-of-the-workforce/?fbclid=IwAR2YpYBweiF2KZbVTWjmTCewD7wKJnwUNijtLbtn_-NGgzWxxYMAOKoRLJA

Scotland has quietly dropped the 30 free hours fromAugust that were going to make it financially viable for me to work. Now it’s going to be a matter of me earning a couple of hundred pounds extra per month instead of nearly £1000 that was previously the case.

Childcare needs to be thought of as a joint cost. At one point when I changed careers I think childcare was 80% of my salary however it was coming out of the family income. It's short term pain but long term gain in my eyes.

My point is, which people are choosing deliberately to miss, is that for men who are getting to go back to work outside of the home, life is closer to normal. For the women who cannot return to work, they are still in lockdown conditions.

That’s absolutely the same for men who are still locked down while their teacher/doctor/nurse/vet/carer partner is at work.

This is purely about two people in the home working in different sectors.

I’m currently a SAHP, so DH is working. If I was still working in schools (I chose to escape a couple of years ago) it’s likely he’d be home and me working.

@fascinated but if women are accepting the role of default parent or taking the risk of having children that without the kind of financial security that allows them to overcome a few months of school/nursery closures then whose fault is it? Are you suggesting that patriarchy is forcing women to make these choices? Do you think that women are that thick?

Woman who has effectively created a mini patriarchy in her own home is angry at feminists because she now realises that this is impacting her personally.

Could not agree more!

being the top bitch in the boardroom

As long as women describe other women who have dared to be successful 'bitches', what hope do we have..

The idea that it is mostly women's "choice" to work in lower paid jobs is laughable. There is structural inequality in our society and lots of experiences in which individuals are taught how to value themselves and what to value themselves. We choose to value the less caring jobs more in terms of pay and we train women to see caring and empathy as more important in generic terms than we do for men. It is not a level playing field and it's just silly when people make reductionist arguments like that.

Do you all really think that the men having to go out to work are having such an easy time of it?

Yes, if you are at home with children then it's hard work. Even harder if you are trying to WFH. But then the men going out to work are having to travel to work, possibly on public transport and then mix with others at work so risking catching a virus from which they are twice as likely to die than women. So, if the choice is go out to work and risk catching a virus that you are twice as likely to die from or stay at home with the children I know which one I'd rather do.

OP, you are not a feminist, ergo you reject the notion of equality between the sexes since that's what feminism is and yet you continue to moan that men are having an easier time? That doesn't make sense does it? You have stated that you are happy not to be equal or be treated as equal or to fight for the right to be treated as equal so why are you moaning? Surely you've got exactly what you want and feel you deserve?

You say that your husband is great and not the problem so why does his need to play golf trump your need for some downtime? Can both things be true? He takes what he wants, even though it disadvantages you and yet he's a good husband? No, sorry, that doesn't compute. Either he gives you an equal amount of free time or you carry on as you are with him being a good husband who doesn't acknowledge your needs.

Feminism is NOT a dirty word and has nothing to do with bitchiness, armpit hair or whatever the other thing you erroneously think it is. Feminism is the fight for equality between the sexes, nothing more or less. If you don't want that then you can't really complain when you don't get it can you?

@alittlerespectgoesalongway are women forced to work in lower paid profession? No. The choose it, or they don’t think about the consequences. Not thinking about the consequences doesn’t make you any less responsible for the outcomes.
BTW, i’m almost 50, so definitely grew up in a time where things were less equal. I made a choice, others made their own. We all live with the consequences of ours. Nobody forced it upon us (except in abuse situations)

I sadly think this post is drivel. The key point is, he earns more than you, so is working.
It’s your lifestyle choice

Do you all really think that the men having to go out to work are having such an easy time of it?

No I don't, not now and not under normal circumstances

Your not wrong, op. Women have been more effected from the off. Make dominated industries (ie construction) were last to close or never closed. Key worker women have been taking Unpaid leave from the start so non key worker higher earners can work.

When you add to that how much caring falls to women (www.carersuk.org/news-and-campaigns/features/10-facts-about-women-and-caring-in-the-uk-on-international-women-s-day ) then the average woman is definitely feeling lockdown more than the average man.

This is an interesting piece: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/17/lockdown-women-working-mothers-coronavirus-home-working

Posted too soon

Do you all really think that the men having to go out to work are having such an easy time of it?

No I don't, not now and not under normal circumstances. If feminism means striving for equality then it's aims are not nearly ambitious enough. I don't want what men have. I don't want more than they have, I'd like something different to what is currently available for all of us.

Nope. It’s not always the woman with the caring responsibility. When Dd was young I went back to work when she was a few months old and dh stayed at home for the next 2 years.

Nursing And caring are a female heavy workforce and they’re all at work.

@Waiting1987 I think they've just said the full hours might not he available to everyone come August. It doesn't look to be cancelled.

But they've opened up places for men like golfing.

Are only men allowed to play golf then? When did that happen - is it a new post lockdown law?

If golfing can reopen why can't children go in play areas and sit outside and have a drink with relatives.

Because they are worried that Covid can be transmitted by touching surfaces. Children can go to parks and play, can sit in a park and have a drink outside - why do you think they have to have a playground to do this in?

would love to know how you choose to have a better paid job than your spouse. Please let me in on the secret to controlling other people’s thoughts and abilities in life. You could make millions with that book.

I earn as much as dh. And the fact that I do is in my control. It’s not down to other people’s thoughts and abilities but down to my own decisions.

I went back to uni, got a second degree in a subject leading to a better career. Even though I was out of pocket as we had to pay for full time childcare even though I wasn’t earning and got no tax credits /childcare credits because I wasn’t working. I kept working even when Dd was little even though childcare was a nightmare as I worked shifts. I’ve made career decisions which put me first, including a 4 hr round trip commute daily for one job because I knew it would help my career. Men would do a long commute, but too many women think they can’t because of kids, etc.

Maybe if you were more of a feminist you wouldn’t be in this situation.

Well I must say, I clearly made a few mistakes with my OP... I should not have said the F word for starters and I should not have used my personal situation as an example.

And imagine me raising a pertinent and current issue about motherhood on a forum called “Mums”net.

Absolutely stunned by responses saying I:

Should have chosen a better paid career (well 24 years ago it was a career that was well paid)

Should have chosen a man who earned less than me (how much do you earn was not one of the first questions I asked DH, who incidentally had a different career when I met him)

Ergo the current pause on childcare whilst simultaneously pushing people to return to work is my fault and not the result of a government pandemic response which has been poorly thought out and strongly favours men.

That I prioritised having children over my education and that’s why I earn less (wtf)

That I should have thought about a potential global pandemic before having children... poor planning on my part, I agree.

My point remains that for a lot of men lockdown is over. For many women it remains indefinitely. Notice I did not say ALL.

And yes lockdown is still officially in place in Scotland but English employers have different ideas.

And yes 30 free hours suspended in Scotland “until a later date” - link: www.holyrood.com/news/view,expansion-of-free-childcare-delayed-due-to-coronavirus_15297.htm

But you are totally ignoring the fact that for a lot of people it’s the opposite- women out at work while (either higher or lower paid) male partners are at home looking after children. And you have also totally ignore people asking what you think should have been done differently to address the perceived issue. Or why indeed it’s up to the government or anyone else to do so, rather than letting people do what works best for their family.

80% of nhs staff (roughly) are women so I’ve seen many households where during lock down the dh is working from home with dc while mum comes to work. It’s not all been about pay - key worker takes priority to go to work. With supermarkets plus nhs and care homes, I’d actually imagine more women than men may have had to go to work up until now when everyone is encouraged back.

Women have choices - career paths, prioritising dc and school runs. This is fine but stop feeling hard done by and blaming others. You made these choices.

So you prioritised having children over your education - that was a choice that you made wasn't it?

Why didn't you compete your education before having children, or complete it afterwards, if that was important to you?

I think the worst lie told to people is that you can have it all. I think whatever choices you make there are trade offs to be made. It's up to each of us to weigh the benefits Vs the trade offs and then make our choices.

It’s choices.
www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/genderpaygapintheuk/2018

The gender pay gap has many causes, not just sexism. But even so, the UK ONS stated: The gender pay gap for full-time employees is close to zero for those aged between 18 and 39 years So let’s stop with the BS about most women earning less than men because it’s not true today.

ONS goes on From the age of 40 years, it widens. For all employees, the gender pay gap widens after the age of 30 years and this coincides with an increase in working part-time from this age.. Which also coincides with having children, and the fact that more women than men choose to stop working/work less because they want to spend time with their young children. Why do women want this? Its 2020 the society forcing the mother to stay home to be a “good mother” with the “bad” working mother stigma is not an excuse anymore imho. It hasn’t been since the 1990s.

Women being blamed for structural sexism is part of the problem and a sign of the problem. If it's all individual women's fault for their bad choices, there's nothing to solve.

There's also the interesting downwards drift in real wages over time in industries that have become feminised. No doubt that's the fault of individuals too.

And the fact that the UK compares quite poorly with other comparable countries when it comes to women in senior roles.

I know quite a few high earning women. I don't know any who are in a relationship with children, where the man genuinely takes on more of the household and childcare responsibility. I mean, I keep hearing about them on here but I've never seen it in real life.

I can answer the question about home learning. The ratio of mums supporting it to dads is about 1:12 (based on 2 schools, one primary, one secondary).