to think Dominic Cummings has to go?

[RoosterPie]

Dominic Cummings apparently travelled to his parents house while meant to be self isolating due to covid symptoms.

Given what happened with Neil Ferguson and Catherine Calderwood, AIBU to think his position ought to be untenable?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/22/dominic-cummings-durham-trip-coronavirus-lockdown

Off topic but how is only 48??!!! He looks much older

Jesus wept. People are actually defending this? Tory central office must be paying overtime this weekend

Dom runs the show, he was the mastermind behind delivering the Brexit and GE campaigns. Boris and the others are just the mouthpieces.

Ooooh idk use their vast wealth to employ a private nurse? Ask the family members in London to help? Manage the way every other family in the uk has been asked to manage?

And Cummings also saying that police didn’t question him. So who are we supposed believe, Cummings or the police?

I think that’s him just trying to be clever with words. The police said they spoke to the home owners, he’s said they didn’t speak to him, clearly they spoke to his parents, his sister or their landlord depending on who owns the house

I do live by myself. I would call my sister to take my children if I needed to go to hospital or I was too unwell to look after them. If I had no one to call on I would have to call social services. But he did have someone to call on and he could do that safely. Social services is a last resort and an overstretched service. I would not want to send my frightened child into care if there was another option. Sometimes there is no choice but to do this, but it's not the first choice. I think the option he took was a safe one and in the best interests of the child.

Obviously not that Ill. Driving that distance with little kids is stress x 10. He was also poorly with Covid too? He was a danger on the roads ! He spread it around up north ( what have they ever done to anyone?) and could have caused an accident to boot.
I don't believe he was that poorly if he could do all this! ?
I normally shrug off these political cock ups and misdemeanours but this whole thing has me so annoyed!
Yet they will air brush it away. As they always do

If it was ok for known CV19 sufferers to travel, the government should have made that clear.

The explicit message was to STAY AT HOME just in case you had it.
If you knew or suspected you had it, the explicit message was to SELF ISOLATE IN YOUR OWN HOME and for those living with you to STAY AT HOME and get others to do doorstep deliveries for your household. However you seem to think that the message was: it is ok for CV19 sufferers to travel to where they would be more comfortable Intothesun. Where are you getting that from?

I guess that the situation he moved himself into as he wasn't local to his family was the same as what I have now. If any of us got sick and thought we may not be able to look after the children we would all have to have made other arrangements for them one way or another.

Unless you are a very well connected and highly paid government advisor, you aren't in the same position as Dominic Cummings.

Even assuming that he has no friends or family closer than Durham, his family, who didn't have symptoms, could have travelled to see him and them placed themselves under quarantine. There was no need for him to make a 250 mile journey to Durham.

The advice was not 'Stay at home for 7-14 days if you or anyone in your household has symptoms, unless you have children in which case you should move to another household as a precautionary measure'. The advice was 'Stay at home'.

That's obvious without needing specific guidance I would have thought.

Fathers have missed births, funerals have been unattended, at least one child has died alone in hospital, confused elderly parents aren't being visited.

Most of us aren't doing the things that we would usually do because we have been told that to protect the NHS and save lives we need to obey the rules.

Obviously not that Ill. Driving that distance with little kids is stress x 10.

Depends how used to driving those distances you are. I never found it a problem when I lived 250 miles from home. I expect he is used to it because his family live there.
And maybe he wasnt that Ill in that timeframe when he drove. He had covid symptoms but the symptoms obviously can get worse as no doubt we've all read /potentially experienced. I presume he traveled whilst he was still well enough to do so. In order to forward plan for his child's care needs.

People will defend a rule breaker to the hilt it seems.

Unless you are a very well connected and highly paid government advisor, you aren't in the same position as Dominic Cummings

No. I don't have a second home. So those options wouldn't be available to me. So what? I work within the resources I do have. As we all do.

People will defend a rule breaker to the hilt it seems

No. I wouldn't. I do defend common sense though. Just because most people hate the bloke for numerous other reasons isn't really relevant to this one particular incident. And standing from the outside looking in I see nothing wrong with the decision he made in the best interest of his child.

I dont think that rule breakers are being defended The80s. I think it's just Dominic Cummings being defended here.

So what? I work within the resources I do have. As we all do.

To limit the spread of the virus we have all been told not to use resources that would usually be available - to stay at home.

And standing from the outside looking in I see nothing wrong with the decision he made in the best interest of his child.

Putting a child in a car for 5 hours with somebody who has covid 19 isn't even necessarily in the best interests of his child, but we have all been told to do things that aren't in the best interests of our children to prevent spread of the disease amongst the wider population.

Putting a child in a car for 5 hours with somebody who has covid 19 isn't even necessarily in the best interests of his child

Do you not think the child had already spent longer than that previously in the company of her parents? It's hardly relevent at that stage is it. And if both parents had covid the child was going to be exposed to it anyway weren't they? Whether they were in the car or at home. It's not possible to isolate yourself from a 4 year old you are looking after.

^but we have all been told to do things that aren't in the best interests of our children to prevent spread of the disease amongst the wider population.

I agree. Sometimes it comes to that. And sadly some have had no choice if their children have had to be taken into care. Always better if you can achieve both really isn't it. The wider population and the child. Which as far as I can see he did.

To agree with a PP, its’s absolute nonsense to say the guidance on self-isolation & households wasn’t clear enough. I’ve screen grabbed & linked but bottom line is you stay at home (no essential travel unless last resort for medicine & supplies & that is strongly discouraged).

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-stay-at-home-guidance/stay-at-home-guidance-for-households-with-possible-coronavirus-covid-19-infection#who-this-guidance-is-for

I absolutely despair at people defending this. He directly went against the lockdown. The govt are now outright contradicting everything they have said for the last couple of months. And there will be no consequences.

A 13 year old child died on their own. Lots of people have not been able to grieve with loved ones. Many more have struggled looking after children and family with complex needs and no support. We’re all facing an uncertain economic future. I cannot feel sorry for this man who had the resources & connections to have found another solution to his childcare problem.

What Cummings did is indefensible from a leadership perspective & he ought to go. But he won’t. And it is not okay.

They're not the only rules though are they. Because it doesn't say you stay home despite everything. Even if you're too sick to look after your child. Children always were allowed to move between houses where parents had split up. Again in the best interest of the child. People could still move house if necessary. People could move into other households and form a new household. Domestic violence victims could leave. Some people still had to go to work, not just key workers.It wasn't so simple as you stay in and that's it. It's a lot more nuanced than that.

It's not possible to isolate yourself from a 4 year old you are looking after.

I am referring to this:

twitter.com/Peston/status/1264178461628870658

The wider population and the child. Which as far as I can see he did.

Except he didn't because he travelled 240 miles from his home, risking infecting anyone he came into contact with on the way. The chances of having to stop or of needing help on a 240 mile journey are relatively high.

The thing that you don't seem to understand is that other people have had to make really difficult decisions that aren't in their own interests.

Honestly I think my parents and ILs would rather just risk getting the virus and see their grand children now. By the time this is over my MIL's sight may have worsened to the point where she can't really see her grandchildren, and my mother will be even less aware of what is going on.

However, if they become ill and are admitted to hospital it is likely that they will spread the disease to others, so we stay at home.

I can make decisions that benefit myself, but to make decisions that benefit society as a whole, I have to rely on information from government. If I can't trust what they say, why bother?

Intothesun It's very, very simple if you have symptoms. Surely you understand that.

They're not the only rules though are they. Because it doesn't say you stay home despite everything. Even if you're too sick to look after your child

But he wasn't too sick to look after his child because he was able to drive all the way to Durham. Do you understand?

The thing that you don't seem to understand is that other people have had to make really difficult decisions that aren't in their own interests.

Oh I do understand that for sure. In my work I've had to support people with those very difficult decisions. But I disagree with you on this case. Because I think the decision he made was a reasonable one in the circumstances, all things considered. You don't. That's ok. We don't have to agree. Aside from anything, it doesn't matter if we agree or not. The government have backed him on this one. It's likely he sought guidance from them before proceeding with this anyway. So I doubt he's going to be going anywhere soon.

It's likely he sought guidance from them before proceeding with this anyway

Why would he seek guidance? He helped to write the regulations so he knows them already but because he's a 'maverick' they don't apply to him.

You want people to be honest and admit they are against Cummings whatever he does because they 'hate tories' - why don't you be honest and admit you would slavishly support Cummings and tories whatever they do, however indefensible.

What a shame to lose a sensible and independent mind from the government at this time. What he did was wrong. The Scottish official went quite quickly over similar circumstances. Cummings should not wait to be asked, he should just quietly pack up and go.
A couple of our neighbours have visitors to stay every other weekend, I suspect a shift pattern. No I didn't grass, but they are wrong.
Also in a 14 page thread we have about 12 pages of hate and bile. some are even try to rehash the Brexit argument. Duh!

They have family in London too - there is no defence for their actions