To feel my employer are suddenly discriminating because I have a young child?

[Tayo23]

I work for a government dpt where it is not usually commonplace to be able to work from home. On 19th/20th March when the schools closed, I was asked in work if this would impact me in regards to childcare - it does, and I was offered a laptop to work from home which I gratefully took.

At this point all my colleagues (except for a minority shielding or in similar positions) remained in the office every day as there were a lack of laptops for them - it was BAU. I worked remotely from home, with colleagues in the office uploading my (and other remote workers) work. A week later my office closed (a non-critical govt dpt) however I have continued to work from home since then although my colleagues without laptops were not working at all. My partner was furloughed a week or so after my office closed so has been a great help keeping 4yo entertained.

At the end of April my office advised those without laptops must return to the office one day a week on a rota basis to upload, (to maintain social distancing). I was not asked because it was understood I was working from home. Last week they provided everyone in my office (around 80 people) with laptops. I have now been told that because everyone else now has a laptop, I am now too required to work one day a week in the office, and spend the rest of the week working from home.

My partner returns to work next week. I now am in same position as end of March before lockdown re childcare. They are allowing me to take special leave for the one day a week I can’t come into the office, for 4 weeks. After then I have to use annual leave. I have repeatedly stressed I am willing to continue working each day from home. I just simply cannot leave my child at home alone. My partner is unable to get paid leave off and we would struggle without his pay.

AIBU to feel this way, they understood initially and accommodated me which I was extremely grateful for. I have worked each day whilst my colleagues barely have done until now, but now they too have the facilities to work from home, the goalposts have been moved.

I am not happy being told when to take AL when I have not asked for any time off. Do I have a leg to stand on here if I take this higher than my own line manager (who robotically regurgitates things without much compassion or consideration for people’s individual circumstances)

Pretty reasonable response OP! Hope it works out for you 😊(Am not being sarcastic in case it comes across that way!)

Your child that you chose to have is still only the responsibility of you, not your employer, even those these changes to your childcare arrangements were unexpected and no fault of your own.

And this is precisely the attitude which perpetuates structural inequality.

Unfortunately, we are not in a privileged position enough to hire a nannie as pp suggested.

You don’t need a nanny for one day a week, you just need a babysitter. There are loads of nursery staff out of work right now who would be glad of a day’s work here and there. Are you not saving in nursery fees while nursery is closed? (I k is many are still charging)

^but I'm also increasingly concerned with the fact that it's disproportionately women who expect their employers to work around their children when children have two parents.
I'm not convinced that for every mum having issues with childcare and work there is a dad equally pushing his work to work around his children. That for me is the crucial issue: it seems accepted that whatever dads do is important work and mum's job has to give.^

It's an issue for us, but not because DH's job is seen as more important - I have the better job with better pay, better conditions and more flexibility. DH has a shitty job with crap conditions and limited flexibility because he needs to be in at certain times compared to me where the majority of my job can be done anytime and as long as certain deadlines are met if I'm working from home I can do it during days, evenings, weekends, whatever.

GrolliffetheDragon

This is precisely the issue with DP’s employer. His boss is Ebenezer Scrooge himself and is not flexible. It’s unfair yes - and whilst in principle I completely agree that the childcare shouldn’t fall to me just because I am a woman - it is also a lot more feasible as I’m a civil servant with a flexible hours contract. I also earn more than DP too. His job cannot be done from home or out of hours.

Again though I realise both myself and DP will need to take AL if and when the time comes and nursery is still closed.(I am still paying 50% of the fees, with DPs furlough pay, we’ve not really saved anything from this)

I find this thread so fucking depressing. OP has a job she can do from home. She is being penalized over some misplaced view of fairness. It is not her fault nurseries and schools are closed - that's actually the decision making of her employer the government no less. The OP should not have to find some complete stranger to babysit or send her kids to any random daycare she can find or to nonexistent family and certainly not to grandparents (wtf have we all done this for if we are going force people to send kids to grandparents!) - employers should be flexible. We should be demanding more from employers not giving them a golden pass and big clap for doing what they had too with little choice.

If this crisis has taught us anything it should be that a huge swath of employers will drop people like a dead weight at the first sign of trouble and that all that loyalty and all the extra people put into their jobs every day wont amount to a hill of beans or even the most basic flexibility and consideration in return when push comes to shove.

That a bunch of women, many almost certainly paid less than their male counterparts to begin with, and most with children on a parenting site - can't have more compassion and consideration for the impending difficulties and inequality of what will be the looming situation for many women forthcoming is massively disappointing.

I completely agree chappie and I have seen the same attitude in a lot of places.

Indirect sex discrimination of women is back and will be acceptable again.

Depressing indeed.

Fabulous post FixItUpChappie

I agree with every word.

FixItUpChappie

Well said, spot on. 👏

FixItUpChappie

Really well said!

Not discrimination OP YABVU

@argumentativeaardvaark

So do you think the structural inequality against the childless is any better?

The expectation that we will go in one extra day a week (thus exposing ourselves to the virus more, adding longer to our working day with a commute, and incurring costs on this commute) so that the OP, and every other parents, doesn't have to find alternative childcare (be it a babysitter, a days AL or unpaid carers leave) for a child they chose to have? And whenever you have a child you know life throws you curveballs, yes you might not predict a pandemic but you know childcare falls through, plans and circumstances change, it is part of your job as a parents to adapt to and support these changes. Not the job of an employer of colleague.

I have just come back to remark that OP's employer is a government department and they apparently had no plan for lockdown, plus it's taken them two months to even source laptops for their staff who were twiddling their thumbs on full pay from the taxpayer. I don't think the OP (who has been doing her work) is really the problem here .

@fixitupchappie

OP's employer has been incredibly flexible. Allowing her to wfh as soon as the schools shut when the rest of the office was still coming in. Letting OP know in advance that she will be required to be in 1 day a week and providing paid leave for the first four weeks of it and then coming up with a solution (taking AL) so that OP can still look after her child.

Her employer has been incredibly flexible and yet when the OP started this thread she was refusing to be flexible in taking her AL to look after her child. I appreciate she has taken on board comments and now intends to do this and applaud her for that. But people responding to the post that started this thread were right to point out that flexibility goes both ways and the OP was not at all being discriminated against.

What’s happening now will have long term consequences for women if we’re not careful

That's exactly what's worried some of us from the very start of this
As said before, I can see a horrible situation where employers do everything they can to avoid hiring women of childbearing age and to hell with what that'll do to family budgets

In the meantime, like it or not, some dads really will need to step up more over childcare. It was all very well treating it as womens' work when women just worked for a bit of extra cash, but we're not in those days any more - and while it wouldn't be easy, things worth having seldom are

beabitnicer

Ofc childcare falls through sometimes with or without a pandemic. And literally any other time I’d take AL as I wouldn’t be able to work. However I can work from home - I’ve been doing it for months and it’s still very much needed every single day. And it was these ‘nightmare parents’ working from home that kept everything going whilst the childless had full paid leave. (With thanks also to around 5 admin staff who uploaded). I have admitted defeat though and realise there are much worse off and AL is probably what I will need anyways.

There are elements of my OP I stand by - and elements I have changed my view on too.

phiney that’s very true. As a department their organisation is truly dire, And it is poorly managed. I have not met a colleague who does not feel the same way. As I said this probably set me off ‘on the bounce’ more than usually and skewered my perspective slightly in terms of what was ‘discriminating’ and what was normal practice.

Beabitnicer. You need to look up the definition of indirect sex discrimination. Her employers requirement in the current circumstances make it more difficult for those with caring responsibilities to comply. Like it or not the majority of those with caring responsibilities are women. Therefore they are are making it more difficult for women as a whole to continue to work without using up their annual leave which puts them at a disadvantage and is to their detriment. They are discriminating. It's not like she's asking for something for nothing. She's quite able to work those days just not in the office. Beurocratic nonsense

@Sistedtwister

OP has a partner. Their child is their shared responsibility. Therefore they should be taking equal time off to care for it. If the OP's partner is refusing to take the time off then he is the one discriminating against her, not her employer. Similarly if OP's partners employer is refusing him time off on the basis his partner can look after his child then it is that employer who is discriminating based on sex, not OP's employer. A child may be a caring responsibility but it is still a choice.

And what if the OP's employer says she doesn't have to go into the office but everyone else still does? This discriminated against them for not having children. Putting them at greater risk of exposure to the virus. Forcing a commute on them which extends their working day and which they have to pay for when the OP doesn't, purely based on the fact that she is a mother and they are not. That is discrimination against the child free.

And this is on top of plentiful discrimination against the child free already. The expectation that they should work Christmas, holidays, evenings and weekends and even overtime over those with children because 'Christmas is for the children' or 'it would take away from time with families, and that's not fair on the children'. Employers need to be just as careful about their direct discrimination against the child free as indirect sex discrimination, especially if it is facilitated by the fact that OP's male partner is not taking his share of the caring responsibility for their child.

@beabitnicer you tagged me but I think you were referring to comments made by a different poster!

@ArgumentativeAardvaark you are correct, I meant to tag @picsinred. My apologies

@PicsInRed this is the post I meant to tag you in, not aardvaark.

So do you think the structural inequality against the childless is any better?

The expectation that we will go in one extra day a week (thus exposing ourselves to the virus more, adding longer to our working day with a commute, and incurring costs on this commute) so that the OP, and every other parents, doesn't have to find alternative childcare (be it a babysitter, a days AL or unpaid carers leave) for a child they chose to have? And whenever you have a child you know life throws you curveballs, yes you might not predict a pandemic but you know childcare falls through, plans and circumstances change, it is part of your job as a parents to adapt to and support these changes. Not the job of an employer of colleague.

Being a parent myself I think YABU. If you have little ones at home there is no way you can be as effective. I worked for many years from home and no way when the children were younger could I put in a full days work. We literally threw money at childcare to ensure that we could both work.

Absolutely you need to take AL

However I can work from home
We'll according to your first post you Dan only do so if people upload your work first, so I wouldn't call this being able to work from home.

However good on you for reflecting on what people have said and accepting that expecting you to take A/L is not unreasonable of your employer.

The point you’re spectacularly missing beabitnicer is that alternative childcare may be impossible to source right now.

AL may be a short term solution, but significant chunks of unpaid leave for parents is very problematic in that it’s those with dependents taking the greatest economic hit.

No parent asked for childcare to be closed down like this. It’s an absolute nightmare. It sounds like the OP is managing brilliantly in wfh. Why make working parents’ lives (which are immensely stressful right now as children need to be cared for and jobs need to be done) more difficult than they need to be?

The OP won’t have unlimited AL. How do people propose the OP handles this situation if childcare continues to be unavailable?

beabutnicer

My DP isn’t refusing to take off, I’ve never said that. And whilst I agree that his is employer is most definitely a complete arse - why are my employers perfectly within their rights to refuse me to continue working in a way that I have done for months due to lack of childcare, that will still still continue to benefit them in the exact same way, and not be at all discriminatory in doing so, yet my DP’s employer are most definitely discriminatory for refusing him leave at a time when they are trying to bring business back after being shit down for the past 2 months (which they are also entitled to do)?

For me, this is not a case of being a woman and therefore my DP expecting me to do the childcare. It’s a case of him having a shitty inflexible employer who refuses to budge on anything, and me having one that are typically very flexible regarding working arrangements (and not just with parents - with students/disabled/people with other caring responsibilities) and have been thus far, and have now taken their own provisions they put in place in order to benefit both myself and them, without any real logical explanation.