So sad for the lack of innovation in uk regarding schools reopening

[emptyfridge]

Watching newsnight about schools reopening. So sad to see the contrast to the approach here in the uk and how they’ve dealt with this abroad. We need to start thinking about the impact of all this on children and drop all this crap about home learning for the next year.

My DS’s Secondary School, which is private, is not opening for Y10 unless the scant guidance published changes. They are going to continue their online full timetable provision. With virtual face to face contact.

Agree, good point @Hunnybears

This constant comparison with Denmark is getting annoying.
It has a covid death rate that's miniscule compared to the UK. It has very well funded schools with a liberal approach to education, and a government that values it's teachers. It had a cohesive society that supports the higher good, and just is not comparable to the UK.

(I have never heard any NHS staff or unions complain about being deployed to a different department in order to help out in this pandemic. )

NHS unions have been heavily involved in health and safety returning to work but this is just reported differently (more kindly and less accusatory) in the media....

Besides, not every NHS dept/worker has been deployed and some have been at home during this time. Again, not as widely reported and with a different stance.

@SoupDragon - many European countries have Forrest Schools where children are outside all year round. It could be done in some primary settings, if people are innovative and willing. Most of the outside space is free, councils could offer some of their parks to facilitate the concept of a Forrest School where school fields have been sold off.

I get what you mean, but I do think the blame is with the government here. I'm a teacher and one that shouts to go back asap. But, the government could have easily given schools the drive and ability to be "innovative" with some cold hard cash.

Dearest shools! We know you're still doing your best (most of us really are) and we know you value education as much as we do. Here is money, hire portable classrooms, install sinks, get extra staff etc. Whatever you need to be able to continue with the wonderful job of education the next generation, we will provide it. Love, the government xoxo

What else got it is.. yea, hey teachers, education is needed. Smaller class sizes. Lol sorry about causing overcrowding over the last few years. My kids private school manage with 15 to a class, totes doable. If you can't do it we will turn everyone against you. Yea, so, errrm, good luck. See you June 1st. Bye.

I think one of the main issues is the attitude of some authorities/unions. We recieved a letter from 'the executive' of our academy trust yesterday which basically said we're very reluctantly opening to the specified year groups, but we don't really want to, and we won't be rushed/told what to do. You don't have to send your kids back, and if you don't we won't fine you. If you do send then back its going to be pretty rubbish when they are there, they most likely won't be with their friends or even their teacher. So we're opening because we have to, but we really don't want to. They obviously don't think it's the right thing to do, and maybe they're right...

But perhaps a change of thinking, or at least a change of communication to 'Yes its rubbish, but here's what we can do' might be helpful.

It could be done in some primary settings, if people are innovative and willing. Most of the outside space is free, councils could offer some of their parks to facilitate the concept of a Forrest School where school fields have been sold off.

Seeing as the government has given no extra funding in support of schools reopening, maybe this could be something you write to your MP about and put forward on your behalf.

Money. We need funding. Then you will see what we can do!

But perhaps a change of thinking, or at least a change of communication to 'Yes its rubbish, but here's what we can do' might be helpful.

But that is basically what the letter you have received from your Academy Trust has done!

@ChloeDecker I suppose it was more the attitude of 'We're being forced, we don't really want to do it, we're doing it against our will' which came through loud and clear in the letter.

I think along with visiting your parents, this is rapidly becoming the biggest area where people don't agree, a lot of people have strong views and everybody thinks their view is right - it's a really hard one!

It could be done in some primary settings, if people are innovative and willing. Most of the outside space is free, councils could offer some of their parks to facilitate the concept of a Forrest School where school fields have been sold off

Forest schools are not simply learning on a field.

They do actually need shelter, kids will need places to get water and toilet breaks at the very least.

Honestly what it needs is funding.

All of the problems with the UK government’s response can be put down to their lack of funding and lack of respect for teachers, the NHS, local government and care homes. It’s arrogance on a grand scale and I am tired of it.

More outdoor learning - have you seen how small the school grounds are for most schools? How are you going to staff and resource it? Most schools don't have adequate shelter for either sun or rain. This is the longest largely settled period of weather I remember having for a long time, but it is too hot for most to be outside in without the aforementioned shelters. I also imagine you need training to be able to do outdoor learning. Your voice would be carried away. Nice idea for engaged 6 yr olds, not great for unruly teens. A lot of schools (academies?) sold their playing fields off. Maybe they can ask the people who live on them now if the pupils can use their gardens? That's quite innovative.

I have been astounded at the level of planning our school has put in to try and return the maximum number of children available to school. It must have taken hours and hours. I do not think for one minute it isn't because there is a lack of innovative thinking.

It just isn't possible with the govt guidelines, 10 yrs of underfunding and under-staffing.

Maybe be more 'innovative' next time you vote?

On Question Time last night they were talking about some Danish children going to sailing school. How free do you think that is?

Schools have no money. Some schools are in the process of looking at their budgets for next year and working out which staff they have to let go to balance the books.

@SoupDragon - many European countries have Forrest Schools where children are outside all year round

Yes, I know. DD's did when she was still at primary. All well and good if you are already set up for it, totally shit if you aren't.

Innovation doesn’t always involve money but it always involves thinking creatively instead of saying ‘no that won’t work, no that won’t work’. At some point people in positions of power and by that I mean the heads of the unions need to say ‘look, the current proposals don’t work, however, we’ve got three alternative solutions of how we can make this work for the majority’. Then SAGE and the government can choose the best proposal.

I think some parents are becoming frustrated because in most roles, we’d be demoted or get a shit appraisal if we constantly said ‘no’ to every suggestion of a new way of working and wouldn’t come up with solutions only problems. Yes Denmark isn’t the best exact comparison but we can adopt the best bits from multiple countries and make them fit our own situation. We can also be flexible and if something isn’t working or we discover new information, we adapt.

A vaccine may never come and thus we need to start learning how to live with this virus.

We're being forced, we don't really want to do it, we're doing it against our will' which came through loud and clear in the letter.

Unless the letter actually said that, it could just as easily be your opinion/bias interpreting it that way. The reason why I say this is because my DD’s school letter came through and most of the class Whats App group was fine with it but a small number read it the way you have done with yours.

Starting to think it should be compulsory for parents to do a day volunteering in schools so at least they'd have an idea of what the places are actually like.

Oh, but why can't we instantly be like this different country, with totally different circumstances and funding? Why?

There's very little that the Uk has done to cover themselves with glory, all that talk about amazing planning...who knows why we fucked it up so much

Summary: There was a detailed plan, and they did follow it, but doing so turned out to be a mistake, as the plan was for pandemic flu, and COVID was too different.

In more detail: There was an article in the Guardian this week that confirmed what I speculated in a COVID thread a few weeks ago. What went wrong in the UK's response wasn't people making wrong seat-of-the-pants decisions, they were following a very detailed plan, prepared for a flu pandemic. Even the much-criticised decision to let major sporting events go ahead wasn't politicians being stupid or negligent, it was explicitly written in the 2011 plan that that should happen, to keep up public morale.

With the benefit of hindsight, countries that didn't have a detailed plan to follow did better, because they dealt with things as they saw them, rather than following a script. The exceptions obviously being countries in Asia who had plans based on SARS rather than flu.

Innovation doesn’t always involve money but it always involves thinking creatively instead of saying ‘no that won’t work, no that won’t work’. At some point people in positions of power and by that I mean the heads of the unions need to say ‘look, the current proposals don’t work, however, we’ve got three alternative solutions of how we can make this work for the majority’. Then SAGE and the government can choose the best proposal

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe after a decade of funding cuts and trying to be innovative with less, that maybe education professionals are at the end of their tether?

As someone who has been on the receiving end of managers who want to hear “solutions not problems” - it’s really patronising because those who do that don’t want to hear the problems.

You have to listen to the concerns which are being raised.

I’ve learned that very quickly as a senior manager. If you dismiss concerns and ask for solutions only, then you miss things.

You have to listen to the unpalatable stuff especially if it makes you feel uncomfortable. Why? Because you’ll hear something you need to learn from.

That’s the failure of this government.

The only way you are going to get your children back in the way you want is if the government abandon the social distancing rule and teachers feel safe enough to do that. It's not a matter of being open minded and innovative, you cannot do it for a full school, full time with school buildings and grounds as they are now.

@ChloeDecker perhaps you're right.

Then SAGE and the government can choose the best proposal.

The problem is that there will be no single best proposal because every area, and every single school, has different issues and possibilities. It all depends on things like: infection rates in local areas, numbers of key worker or vulnerable children who require childcare, characteristics of the school staff (different proportions of whom will be unable to be in school), the school buildings themselves and the configuration of spaces within them, the outdoor spaces available, the resources (IT and otherwise) available, and so on.

What will work in one school may not work at all in another. And rethinking educational delivery within a particular school (in changing circumstances) takes time. Time that school leadership teams may not currently have much of, as they’re dealing with lots of other things right now.

by that I mean the heads of the unions need to say ‘look, the current proposals don’t work, however, we’ve got three alternative solutions of how we can make this work for the majority’. Then SAGE and the government can choose the best proposal.

Isn’t it lucky then that two teaching unions did just that-4 times in fact, before Boris’ announcement but was met with silence each time from the government Dominic Cummings
Questions/reassurances and alternatives have been put forward by the unions and not responded to but the Daily Mail doesn’t want to report that. When a meeting did finally take place recently, most of the questions couldn’t be answered by the government. I mean, even the chief education scientist wasn’t briefed beforehand.

And yet here we are. Teachers and support staff already planning and thinking creatively in making the return of some year groups as safe and calming as possible. Even going in during Half Term unpaid to do so.
It’s some councils who have said no to it, not the schools.

I wouldnt let my 4-5 year old child go on a school trip to the local park with a 15 children to 1 adult ratio, no first aider and only accessing the public loos if they are open. I love the Forest School concept but its better thought out than that.