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Original poster

So sad for the lack of innovation in uk regarding schools reopening

229 replies

emptyfridge · 21/05/2020 23:07

Watching newsnight about schools reopening. So sad to see the contrast to the approach here in the uk and how they’ve dealt with this abroad. We need to start thinking about the impact of all this on children and drop all this crap about home learning for the next year.

OP posts:
ineedaholidaynow · 22/05/2020 15:17

Theatres and cinemas are now opening in Denmark so I assume they will no longer be available for schools

Streamingbannersofdawn · 22/05/2020 15:19

Can I just put here that Forrest School is not just teaching outside. It's a whole approach and requires specialist training. To the point that you can't call it "Forrest School" if you don't have an appropriately qualified teacher.

The curriculum would need to change, I have pre-schoolers and we spend a lot of time outside, but it's not just taking normal learning outside there is more to it than that. It's not creative to say...oh I'll just take them and all their books etc into the playground.

titbumwillypoo · 22/05/2020 15:54

To all the people saying we need a "can do" attitude and industry finds solutions not problems. Imagine if i asked a builder to make me a house out of marshmallows but at the same time telling them that if it falls down it's their fault, how could that builder find a "can do" solution to an impossible problem?

saraclara · 22/05/2020 17:19

As has been said before, in Denmark the unions were part of the discussion about how schools were re-opened. So by the time a decision was made, the problems had been ironed out.
Had that happened here, instead of the govt creating its guidelines behind closed doors and with no teacher or union involvement, maybe they'd have come up with some that worked.

nobodyimportant · 22/05/2020 17:24

My mistake re independent SAGE. Obviously I wasn't paying enough attention there, just followed a link from a newspaper report. However, having looked further into it now I don't think it's something you can just dismiss because it doesn't suit your agenda. It's chaired after all by a former Chief Scientific Advisor, not by someone who "couldn't get the job."

It looks like the government's decision was not as soundly backed by science as they'd have us believe though...

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/22/ministers-rejected-school-reopening-plan-recommended-by-sage-experts?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3d27e2GkqIqwensoqO2XksSFRR6G0_2D0meUvJRNP03KG_qSxrrgJv0Gc#Echobox=1590159208

PerkingFaintly · 22/05/2020 17:27

Do you keep a special nickname for starting goady CV threads, emptyfridge?

Or did you join MN just to start them?

nobodyimportant · 22/05/2020 17:30

FWIW I do actually think the approach, groups of 15 in bubbles etc. is quite a good compromise and could work well once the numbers are a bit lower and the "test, track and trace" is up and running. If they can get that sorted before the end of term, then I'd be happier about schools opening then. I'm still not clear how the bubbles will work going forward when all the children come back to primary or indeed how they can work at all for secondary especially once they are into different options for GCSE or for A level. The only way I can see that working would be basically still doing remote learning but doing it supervised in school in a bubble.

Piggywaspushed · 22/05/2020 17:34

Smoke and mirrors about Independent Sage (who , by the way, include actual, you know, child health and education and mental health experts)

The government ignored SAGE : the real ones. NINE different models (all of which would have raised the R as it goes) and the government chose none of them. Sage doesn't model its own models : they will have been provided those 9 by the DfE to model.

So the one the government came up with HAS NOT BEEN MODELLED.

Daffodil101 · 22/05/2020 17:36

I don’t really understand your post, piggy. Can you rephrase it?

Piggywaspushed · 22/05/2020 17:38

Not really no.

The government made up their own schools reopening plan.

They are emphatically not 'following the science'

Does that make it clearer?

AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii · 22/05/2020 17:40

I have emailed my MSP today following the phases set out for Scotland yesterday as I have got myself in a right state about how things are going to work out, at this moment the phases state likely to be kids going in half a week and home the rest, or possibly some year groups attending one week and more another week. I have kids if differing ages, work in community nursing already on flexible working with a DH who works away a lot (unlikely to change) how will this work?

mondaynoon · 22/05/2020 17:44

Do you keep a special nickname for starting goady CV threads, emptyfridge?

Or did you join MN just to start them?

I think having done her goady best the OP has moved to Denmark!

Daffodil101 · 22/05/2020 17:50

Piggy, there’s no need to be sarcastic. No call for that at all.

I genuinely didn’t understand what your post meant, from the way it was written.

Are you saying that SAGE presented models about ways to open schools and the gvt ignored all of them?

nobodyimportant · 22/05/2020 18:02

Are you saying that SAGE presented models about ways to open schools and the gvt ignored all of them?

Yes. The govt provided scenarios for them to model, which they did, then the govt didn't use any of them and came up with a different one that was not modelled.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/886994/s0257-sage-sub-group-modelling-behavioural-science-relaxing-school-closures-sage30.pdf

Daffodil101 · 22/05/2020 18:13

Blimey. I didn’t know this.

So who made up the model they did use? Unbelievable.

Thanks for explaining.

Piggywaspushed · 22/05/2020 18:16

I am guessing the government did daffodil. Which brings us rather nicely back to the OP.

When presented with innovative ideas, the gov ran for the hills.

Piggywaspushed · 22/05/2020 18:17

It wasn't intended to be sarcastic. Sorry if you read it that way.

Piggywaspushed · 22/05/2020 18:19

All of the models were calculated to push the R above 1.

cricketballs3 · 23/05/2020 08:49

Just wondering when schools will find the time to be innovative given they are drowning in paperwork inews.co.uk/news/education/coronavirus-headteachers-drowning-government-school-opening-guidance-2861369

BubblesBuddy · 23/05/2020 08:53

That link makes it clear the analysis was time limited and therefore not the best it could be if more time was available. It makes me wonder why it wasn’t.

Also - the magic number of 1. Why is it 1? It’s a nice round figure but who decided it had to be 1?

This whole argument is about working parents and failing children. The government wants to support both. The cost to the country of not getting schools running will be massive. Not everyone has the luxury of being at home with DC and not wanting school. Millions do want education in some form away from home. Some DC are being failed in all of this and we will be counting the cost in a few years. It will be very sad and very expensive.

Piggywaspushed · 23/05/2020 08:56

Because 1 is the number at which you begin to see exponential growth and a second wave is even more damaging to the economy.

RitzSpy · 23/05/2020 09:01

Well it could be less than one - but it can't be more or we'll end up in trouble.

BubblesBuddy · 23/05/2020 09:04

Except there is now evidence that the R number is being driven by care home cases. Not the community so much. There is also great debate about accuracy of any R figures. So 1 may well be not a reflection of what’s really happening in any given area.

ChloeDecker · 23/05/2020 09:16

Also - the magic number of 1. Why is it 1? It’s a nice round figure but who decided it had to be 1?

1 is the number of how many people that person infects. An R rate of 3 means someone infects another 3 and the exponential growth becomes more rapid.
Sir Patrick Vallance said at the briefing an R rate of 1 means the growth is flat and below 1 means it is falling. He said it was bad to be anything more than 1.