To want to know more about Amazon UK and it's defunding or otherwise of Mumsnet?

[12boo]

I saw (via twitter) that a spokesperson for audible has made some unpleasant remarks about MN users and they have pulled their MN advertising after complaints from "trans activists" that MN is a hive of "transphobic bigots" so I have cancelled my audible subscription because I find MN enormously supportive and I don't want to support a company that vows so readily to the "born in the wrong body- men are women if they say so" cult.
No clear response has come from Amazon itself in this matter. Does anyone know what their position is? TIa

@zscaler gestures broadly at everything

In other words, you have nothing. Like all the others citing transphobia.

I really don't understand why people stay here if they think transphobia is that rampant. Surely you wouldn't want to be associated with a place where there is SO much transphobia that your answer to a call for proof is a "gestures broadly at everything"

What I find so amazing is that people conflate Mumsnet the company with Mumsnet users, in a way that doesn't happen with Twitter, Facebook and other platforms where people express opinions.

Anybody can sign up to post on Mumsnet. Anybody can say anything within the chat guidelines. If someone says something that another person thinks breaks those guidelines, it can be reported and the MN moderators will review it and if necessary remove it.

I don't use Facebook but from what I read others saying about it they're a lot less responsive there. Twitter is appallingly bad at moderation - very hit and miss. Where are all the people saying Facebook and Twitter are responsible for the opinions of their users?

And yet Mumsnet, the most heavily moderated social media site of them all to my knowledge, is the one targeted. I wonder why.

Whether you agree that it is true or not, Mumsnet is widely known as a site which allows transphobic rhetoric. Brands which do not want to be associated with anything of the sort are of course going to react to that.

It’s ‘widely known’ by people not on here because people tell them - and they don’t actually look for themselves. Smear tactics. Have you ever heard anyone on twitter try to shit down kiwi farms or any sites like that? No - they target a parenting site when people discuss things they don’t want mentioned.

gestures broadly at everything

So no then. What on earth is wrong with you? Disagreement is not transphobia. Concerns about the safety and women's rights is not transphobia. Are you actually able to read and understand what's on the page or do you allow others to tell you what they think it is they see and accept that instead? Jeezus 🙄

And if this is the position that Amazon / audible is taking then I'm out. I think any one who cares about women's rights and safety should do the same. This is one of the few forums that allows women to discuss this issue and these big shitty organisations that don't care about women's safety need to be hit firmly in the pocket.

If this has been around the ‘golden cow’ of issues then it would have been all out war on Audible and amazon.

Many online tantrums would be happening. Twitter would be ablaze. Campaigns launched, threats issued... but a stance that is anti-woman is fine? That’s very interesting isn’t it?

Basically, men don't like women getting together - either in person, or online. It's a very old historical pattern, taken to ridiculuos lengths at the moment by transactivists.

Why aren't the TRAs campaigning against the shocking levels of discrimination by other men towards transwomen in many parts of life? Rather than getting angry about women talking about women's rights.

It isn't feminists who beat up or murder transwomen across the world.

Here's a thought: maybe people can't respond to your august demands because the comments in question have indeed been reported and removed. I've certainly reported quite a few which have been zapped.

So then MN is clearly not "transphobic" because the comments aren't allowed to stand.

Arla have been standing up for women? I didn't know! Good for them. On that basis, I shall have a look at the range and try something out.

People are always pretty fast to take a screenshot - especially if they posted the comments for that purpose (they often conveniently appear on twitter as ‘evidence’).

Arla refused to play the game and engage with the bully tactics. They only care about the (female) cows.

The Feminist boards on here are just an echo room of hatred, that don't represent anything about feminism

I strongly disagree with this.

LOL at Amazon a) being seen to take the high moral ground in anything and b) imagining that TRAs / trans people are a bigger market than women and mothers who control and influence budgets for whole families.

Anyway, we have stopped our Prime renewal, and are not using them. The amount of packaging makes me feel ill, ditto their treatment of staff, and tax antics.

But then modern feminism (if those who say they follow even it bother to look) does not centre women.

Always amuses me when people whine about MN on twitter, whilst merrily participating in and helping keep afloat a platform full of actual Nazis.

Gasp suggesting that an entire group of people are a threat to children without taking into account individual choices and actions is the very definition of discrimination. There is no empirical evidence that women’s legal rights are being eroded in other countries that have self-I’d legislation, like Ireland, and there are good legal arguments about the seriousness of perpetrating legal fraud that apply now and would apply equally for self- ID.

‘Actual Nazis’, oh my - can you explain what this is?

It is not transphobic to think it is impossible to change biology sex.

Can someone please clarify what amazon have actually said about Mumsnet?

I have tried posting an opposing view on such threads to have posters literally advise others to completely ignore me. The Feminist boards on here are just an echo room of hatred, that don't represent anything about feminism. Bollocks. You may not be used to or familiar with that wave of feminism but Feminist boards on here are full of posters whose beliefs centre women. If you’ve posted opposing views (I.e. self ID being a good thing/women should just roll over and give up their rights to single sex spaces/just be kind etc) then of course you’re not going to be taken seriously because those views do not centre women and only erode our rights.

Nothing on those boards is transphobic and if there are any instances of transphobia, then they should be reported immediately. The problem arises when people think that a desire to protect women’s rights and place us at the centre of feminism is transphobic. It is not.

There is no empirical evidence that women’s legal rights are being eroded in other countries

If men are using the rights designed for keeping women safe then obviously women's rights are being erroded. Men sharing women's toilets / changing rooms / prisons / using women's shortlists / participating in women's sports... All of these things are an erosion of women's rights.

The deletions on the feminist boards are often not offensive in anyway but there is a stricter moderation policy for the discussions which take place there. The boards are monitored by people who would like to silence women with opinions, often targeting well informed and respected contributors with a view to getting them banned. I've seen posts deleted and gone to read the moderation policy because I couldn't see how they had broken the guidelines. If there was so much transphobia then you would expect other SM to be awash with screenshots of the evidence; where is it?

I have reported maybe 3 posts in the time I've been on MN. I believe in free speech and robust debate. Unless a post is abusive or threatening I think it's useful to let them stand as evidence of where the hostility is coming from; why don't TRA's do that so the whole world can see?

I believe BlackberryCane was referring to Twitter, which is full of dubious types.

The Feminist boards on here are just an echo room of hatred

Evidence? Please show your workings.

Actual Nazis
LordFront I think they were referring to Twitter hosting actual Nazis which they do. Twitter also hosts DV apologists; incels; peodophiles; MRAs; TRAs. They allow threats of violence against women to stand time and time and time again even though the HoC pulled them up on it and they promised to do better
Campaigns against MN are nothing to do with trans rights. It's about men trying to shut down a forum ran and populated by women. They really can't bear it. The only difference between them and the MRA attacks of old is that they've managed to dress up the MRA demands as something else.
The funny thing is they are like toddlers. They think if they can't see or read it then those conversations aren't happening But regardless of how much foot stomping they do. Regardless of how many companies they get to capitulate - Women will still be supporting each other; women will still be calling out men's demands; women will still be challenging men's narratives and violence. And women will still be making most of the household spending decisions. There aren't enough TRAs or MRAs to make up that financial shortfall.