To think that people seem to have forgotten that we are human beings

[AlternativePerspective]

Obviously the lockdown was necessary to slow the virus.

But it seems that now people have lost all perspective and have lost all sense of humanity. Someone says they’re missing their partner,and the response is that they’re just going to have to live with it because “people are dying.”

Someone hasn’t seen their family because they live some way away and are told that they should be grateful they’re not in ICU.

Someone does see their family briefly and they’re told that they’re essentially killing people.

Today I saw a recommendation from someone that all long distance travel should be banned for the foreseeable,but this fails to take into account the families that have been separated by this and the impact it has on their wellbeing’s and relationships.

This isn’t about the doomsayers, we’ve had quite enough threads on those.

But it does seem that people seem to expect that all feelings and emotions should be put aside indefinitely and that you’re somehow unreasonable to want to live any semblance of a human life again.

They can’t be going “I can’t cope!” because they can. They have to. It’s really that simple. except not everyone can. People hurt or kill themselves. People have breakdowns or turn to substances which will have a long term impact on their life. Yes most of us will cope, but it's ignorant to just say "well you will because you have to"

And even if that's your attitude - suck it up, stuff upper lip, that still has no bearing on the whole "people before you had it harder" stuff. You can't compare
In most cases of catastrophe or unrest people have support around them. People aren't in their own home alone for months on end or with young children with no support or caring for someone with complex needs with no specialist support. Of course I'm not saying that's worse than the Wars or the bubonic plague or the battle of Hastings but it does make it a very different beast.

1MoreWine, an excellent post. Thank you.

I think that's a romanticised view, SleepingStandingUp
I see what you are saying, that people had the human touch.
We are reduced to our immediate families now, for those of us who have them. But in other emergency situations - and there are plenty concurrent to this - peoples immediate families are ripped apart. Wars, earthquakes, famine, these things are happening to people right now. I really do think that anyone in those situations would swap circumstances in a heartbeat.

I'm not saying this situation isnt awful hard, for many breakingly hard. We know this, most people are feeling it to some extent. But it's not the end of the world, it's not the end of our personal worlds long as are loved ones are safe around us, Its shit but its temporary.

To the person who said they are willing to do everything to save lives, you better stop driving or using any form of public transport. You know, people could die.

Obviously this whole thing has to be a balance between saving lives and living lives. 46% of people dying from Covid in England are over 85. 75% of those dying are over 75. The aim isn't to save every life. It's to make sure that those with a realistic chance of survival get a hospital bed. Given that beds are currently absolutely fine, I think people are OK to want to see their family and have some basic human freedoms. P.S. I'm sticking to lockdown but it can't go on like this for everyone.

They’ll just have to carry on struggling through. There’s no “I can’t do this anymore/I can’t cope” about it - of course they can.

I nearly got sectioned a few weeks ago because I decided I was done with coping (and living). I've "coped" through an abusive childhood, highlights include scrubbing my dad's blood off the linoleum after my mum stabbed him during a fight with a shard of glass from the door he broke in a drunken rage. I witnessed the whole thing. I "coped" with being violently raped as a student which left me with ptsd. I "coped" with flashbacks to the rape during my son's arrival and then postpartum psychosis. I'm done "coping". It's not just about lockdown even though that's shit...it's about the fucking awful world we are about to emerge into. I don't even like my mum (see above) but I hate the fact that I haven't see her since January. I want the life I fought for back.

I'm trying to tell myself I'm resilient and that killing myself is the quickest route to screwing up my kids, but it's ringing very hollow at the moment.

It has become a bit of a competitive sport with some people, all trying to be the best at following the rules whilst suffering the most. I’m sick of seeing “the rules say...” or “but it’s THE RULES!!!!”. Thank goodness we have the Constitution here which protects us from all that. We have guidelines, not rules. And my state has kept the death-rate around a quarter of that in the UK. But it seems here any mention of being unhappy with “THE RULES!!!!” and you’re lambasted to the ends of the earth.

Thankfully it’s not the average MNer who pulls the strings in all of this. If it were left to some on here you’d be in a POW camp-style of lockdown eating stale bread for the next 10 years.

Everyone knows that Yolo2
Despite people venting on sm, all the preparationson an official level are about easing restrictions in a way that allows testing and tracking, allows protection, allows the people who do get sick adequate treatment, minimises damage to employment and education. It's not easy, balancing all that. Individuals have different difficulties and hardships, but if the majority are able to keep pulling for another little while... to get us down to a level where the SK/Taiwanese approach is applicable.

Granted, I'm not in the UK, I'm next door, but the whole point is is to make sure the last couple of months haven't been for nothing .

I do think me visiting my mum would have zero risk. But if everyone thought that? Obviously some people would calculate it wrong, for whatever reason. Therefore, it's reasonable to have 1 rule for everyone, at least at the start while everyone is getting to grips with an unknown virus.

Dinosauratemydaffodils
I sympathise with all you have been through, truly, it sounds awful and I hope you and your Dc will see brighter times ahead.
But an individuals personal history has no bearing on spread, on a population level.

It's a blunt instrument at the moment, but these days are being them time for more refined methods for the months and years to come.

I think we are coming through the worst of it, in every sense.

They’ll just have to carry on struggling through. There’s no “I can’t do this anymore/I can’t cope” about it - of course they can.

How unbelievably blasé. There's no 'of course' about it. Some people can't, and they shouldn't be dismissed. People are not robots.

At the basic bluntness wildcherries
People have some chance of coming through mental health problems, but you have no chance at all of coming through being dead.

From the start it's been acknowledged that lockdown can only last so long, for the reasons cited above.
Every government in the world knows this. That's why they are trying to balance easing of restrictions with keeping infection rates low. Every day there is new information coming available, we know more now than we did in March, and we will know more again tomorrow.

But an individuals personal history has no bearing on spread, on a population level.

I am well aware of that. I'm following all the rules. I haven't left the house since Friday (nowhere to go). Haven't been in a shop since the middle of March. We even locked down a week earlier because I had symptoms and we're responsible. I am however angry at the way our Government has handled things. I'm disgusted at many people's attitudes towards mental health...apparently it's fine for physically fit and healthy people like me to commit suicide as long as we save one life from covid 19. I've seen the ugly side of so many people it's left a really bad taste to be honest. Tried telling myself it's fear but then I've been afraid for most of my life and I've never behaved in such a shit fashion.

I think we are coming through the worst of it, in every sense.

In terms of the UK death toll yes. On a personal level, I think the opposite. I can't wear cloth masks (they trigger my ptsd), I need to see people's faces to talk to them especially men's otherwise I can't read them and don't feel safe. I need space from my kids and dh which it seems unlikely I'll get until 2021 (given what his employers are saying about wfh). I have zero motivation to keep going. Obviously one death is nothing in the grand scheme of things and given I don't value my life, I don't see why anyone else should either.

Still lying awake and thinking of the callousness of They can't be going "I can't cope!" Because they can. They have to. It's really that simple. Why don't we just then say, "there's always infectious diseases etc about, people just have to cope with the risk of death, it's just that simple"? Of course we're not because that's awful- but when it comes to mental health? Of course you can just 'cope'!

@7Days I honestly don't think lots of people do know that though. Some people are very dogmatic about lockdown and don't want it to end. They think the lockdown will somehow eradicate the disease if it goes on long enough. Which it might if we kept going for years and never allowed anyone to travel in and out. Most people are mainly worried about their own lives being affected in some way and lots are overestimating the risk to themselves. If it were the case that this virus was killing the same amount of people, but it was killing a clearly defined group - i.e. no random deaths of seemingly healthy, fairly young people, I think people wouldn't be as dogmatic and insisting on such extreme measures. It's fear of what happens to them and theirs that drives people. They aren't really worried about others that much. They haven't ever worried so much about all the other preventable deaths in the world till they overestimated the chances of this particular preventable death happening to them. People here are saying it's pathetic to miss family when we need to buckle down and "save lives"... I find that either isn't genuine and is people enjoying looking morally superior - or its someone who is unable to think clearly and is absolutely terrified and unable to see that lockdown isn't a cure.

To clarify , my gripe is not at lockdown itself. I'm following all the rules and I'm cautious (I do worry about the virus like everyone else, but also wonder sometimes if we have been terrified out of all proportion) My gripe is aimed at the hysteria from those angry at anyone finding it hard to not see family etc. It's ridiculous to say " get a grip, we need to save lives. " This is a horrific situation and people are suffering horribly.

46% of people dying from Covid in England are over 85. 75% of those dying are over 75.
They're human beings too. With feelings.

I think what might upset some people is posts emphasising the human need for touch and social interaction. Many people don't have that. Lockdown or not. Perhaps they're disabled and housebound, perhaps they've been through a bad breakup and are alone, perhaps their family live abroad making regular visits impossible. I can imagine it might be upsetting for some to see their lives dismissed as not worth living (I've seen it said on other threads).

That doesn't mean we shouldn't empathise with people who struggled with lockdown. It works both ways though and Othering the elderly or people with health condition is equally unpleasant.

but they can’t be going out breaking rules to suit them

ahh they can and will, majority wont get caught either

If people cant cope they will do what they can to help themselves cope.
For some thats break the rules, go out, see family, friends, whatever
For others it would be drugs or alcohol
Some will enter a deep depression which could take years to recover from
Some will suicide, some will take it out on partners, kids

I agree there should be understanding and empathy for those who struggled with lockdown.

It works both ways. It's equally wrong to tell people to 'just get a grip' and to 'just get on with it' when so many have justifiable concerns. Given the vulnerable group is such a large proportion of the UK.

My only thought along these lines was that I wonder if the fuckers who made it clear that I just needed to "get over" missing my mom after her death now realize just how hard it is... And they still get to see their loved ones some day. I'll never see mine again.

We have a basic need for human contact.

My exes mum is 80, she was fit and healthy before lockdown. He would visit with supplies and a distanced chat but refused any more interaction to protect her.

Over the past 3 or so weeks she has crumbled, the lack of human interaction has left her so depressed she has stopped eating and washing and dressing, is paranoid and has become verbally and physically aggressive. She has lost a stone already and might not make the other side of lockdown.

I've read of similar in care homes where residents are fading without the normal contact and activities.

Lockdown is now damaging many people and we need to look at how we can gradually lift restrictions.

I’ve just seen an interesting article in a South African newspaper where they have one of the harshest lockdowns including the re-introduction of prohibition.

The government’s chief scientists are now saying that lockdown no longer serves it’s purpose. It was only ever about slowing the spread not stopping it,and in essence, the same number of people will contract COVID, and the same number of people will still die,it will just be over a longer period.

But the consequences of lockdown are starting to take a toll now on people’s physical health as well as their mental health,with e.g. more instances of child malnutrition and less TB testing,a disease which already kills 500000 people a year.

Perhaps we need to change the realisation. We’re not saving lives, we’re just extending them.

If you really want to save lives then you will stop driving, since cars not only kill people but their fumes cause cancer/respiratory illness which kills people.

But amazing isn’t it that the”we have to cope”types likely feel they should have more of a right to get into their car than others should have to see their family.

When organ donation was voluntary I was opted in. Once Big State chooses to take away our rights - that is when I opted out.

It should always have been an opt in service and like you I had opted in but I will opting out now because of the way this has been done.

What pathetic reasons to not want to help a seriously ill person get some quality of life back!

@ToffeeYoghurt yes they are but I feel saying things like that suggests anyone pointing this out is somehow immoral or saying their lives don't matter. Yes we should do what we can to save all lives but should all young people be prevented indefinitely from living a normal life and have rules imposed that will impact their quality of life for years to come to protect lots of people over 85? My point is we need a balance. Dogma is not helpful and nor is anyone shouting down anyone who tries to look at this in a way which isn't "shut down everything forever"

Any post which features “you are murdering people” or “this is life forever, you are never going on holiday again” gets ignored by me.

I think some people just don’t particularly mind not seeing people and those people think that’s normal and are quick to criticise those who are finding it really really difficult as they rely on human contact to feel good.

I fall into the former category and don’t miss seeing my family at all. By the time I’ve been at home all day with my kids I couldn’t care less about seeing anyone socially. But I know that’s not the same for a lot of people.

@Peggysgettingcrazy exactly