To think that people seem to have forgotten that we are human beings

[AlternativePerspective]

Obviously the lockdown was necessary to slow the virus.

But it seems that now people have lost all perspective and have lost all sense of humanity. Someone says they’re missing their partner,and the response is that they’re just going to have to live with it because “people are dying.”

Someone hasn’t seen their family because they live some way away and are told that they should be grateful they’re not in ICU.

Someone does see their family briefly and they’re told that they’re essentially killing people.

Today I saw a recommendation from someone that all long distance travel should be banned for the foreseeable,but this fails to take into account the families that have been separated by this and the impact it has on their wellbeing’s and relationships.

This isn’t about the doomsayers, we’ve had quite enough threads on those.

But it does seem that people seem to expect that all feelings and emotions should be put aside indefinitely and that you’re somehow unreasonable to want to live any semblance of a human life again.

I went and saw my mum today for the first time in ten weeks. We me up took the dog for a walk for a couple of hours - we maintained social distancing as per the guidelines but I have to say it felt very unnatural!

It was great to see her but we couldn't hug or sit together or show each other photos on our phones or anything as we'd be getting too close! She lives 40 minutes away and I've not seen her since March - now we can meet one other person from another household we're going to meet up weekly. Even seeing her at a distance is better than nothing.

I agree though that going prolonged periods without human touch and interaction is problematic. Zoom/Facetime is not the same as seeing someone in person. I feel incredibly sorry for those who are living and working from home right now.

I've noticed this.

It also seems to give some (not all) people in co-habiting relationships a sense of superiority over relationships where people live apart.

I've seen it trotted out that 'oh well you don't live together so can't be that serious anyway, just suck it up and see them when you can. Me on the other hand, well because I live with my FP I love them so much I'd be heartbroken and lost not seeing them. But you're not, because you don't live together you don't love them as much'

As if it's some kind of competition.

There's plenty of reasons people don't live together that aren't because they're not in love and committed. And I think a lot of people need a reality check on their superiority over others.

YANBU. There are plenty on here who are quick to shoot down any expression of sadness about the situation and it’s very repressive and unhelpful.

"how are they going to make sure doctors dont just cut back on saving a life because your in your 90s in hospital when they can use your organs to keep a younger person alive."

^This comment however it hysterical.

Firstly you have to die in a very specific way in order for it to be possible to donate your organs. You have to be brain dead which means damage to the brain stem so that you would never be able to self regulate to live/breathe/move/talk or wake up again but your remaining organs intact and still functioning (albeit with the use of life support but if the brain was active it would be able to regulate so the organs would function on their own. This is why organ donors only ever come from accidents, not death by old age or disease, because then the organs have ceased to function and the tissue has died.

Secondly no organ from a normal 90 year old would be able to go in and sustain or give life to a young person. By 90 your organs are battered, have experienced the wear and tear of life and wouldn't be any good to anyone. You'd just be replacing one dodgy organ with another dodgy one.

The majority of organ donors are very sadly sub 60 and prior to having their organs donated doctors do everything they can to save their lives. One - because it is their job and duty, two - because they took the hypocratic oath to try and save lives and do no harm and three - because doctors feel real attatchment to patients and anytime they die on their watch it is a loss to them both personally and professionally.

how are they going to make sure doctors dont just cut back on saving a life because your in your 90s in hospital when they can use your organs to keep a younger person alive. It's quite frightening that people have this sort of thought process!! @beabitnicer!

@TitianaTitsling

I agree! Whether someone chooses to be an organ donor or not is their choice but I really think there needs to be a mass campaign for education around it to dispel fear mongering like this.

It already does put people off from donating organs who otherwise would as they fear they may be 'killed' or 'not treated thoroughly' because people want their organs and this is not the case at all. And those who perpetuate this fear I hold directly responsible for people dying on the transplant list, not those who make the decision not to donate fully informed for their own personal reasons, but those who incorrectly scare people off donating.

i am fed up with the othering of the vulnerable. I haven't seen my disabled dd for 9 weeks(or is it 10) its breaking me. yet I come on here and people are posting that the vulnerable should stay home, so others can go out.
I don't know when I will see her again. she has lds so I hate having to try to explain.

It's frustrating to be without what you normally have, but it's also frustrating to be reminded of what other people normally have and you don't. I get this but by that measure no one should complain about how hard his with with children, working from home, having to go out to work, work an unsupportive partner etc.

Some people are suggesting that the shielded should stay home until a vaccine is found,and seem to think that anyone not wanting to is being unreasonable. yup, never mind what that would do to my 5 yo if its years, or his baby brothers who can't exactly go out alone, or DH's job cos there's no point shielding DS for DH to get 4 buses a day when he had to go back in or else we seperate, he lives alone and he doesn't see his kids anymore
But yeah, just being a snowflake

cycling., I opted out a while back. When organ donation was voluntary I was opted in. Once Big State chooses to take away our rights - that is when I opted out.

People can also out of the NHS using their data too - very easily on line and refuse to carry tracking apps etc.

We are losing a lot f free choice at present. 3 weeks lock down I could live with. Week 9 now in the UK is far too much and not in the greater good.

Aa of today the state now owns your body, assumed consent for organ donation is in place. Yes you can choose to opt out but the way I see it its mg body and from the moment you are born the state has already decide what it will do with your dead one. Unbelievable and how are they going to make sure doctors dont just cut back on saving a life because your in your 90s in hospital when they can use your organs to keep a younger person alive.

So opt out? You still have the right to decide what to do with your body. You now just have to be active about your choice instead if passive.

And nobody is using the organs of a 90 year old for transplants, because those organs are worn out and close to the end of their viable life span and wouldn’t be much good to anyone else.

Instead of spreading ill-informed, scaremongering shite on mumsnet, how about you read up a bit? Here is a good place to start: www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/get-the-facts/

xenia exactly my point.

I'm not being hysterical maybe I used a bad example but any system is open to abuse.

End of the say the state has effectively decided it owns your body and has made the decision for you. It should always have been an opt in service and like you I had opted in but I will opting out now because of the way this has been done.

@cyclingmad @xenia

So you are both opting out, out of essential spite. You have no problem with your organs going to someone else but now don't want to because it has to be an active choice to not do it? You are the people who I really struggle with being on the receiving end of an organ transplant.

Anyone who opts out on religious, spiritual grounds or even just the idea that they find the though of their organs in someone else has made their own choice and I respect that. You however are doing it purely because you're throwing your toys out of the pram because you don't like how the system has changed, yet you have no problem with the outcome.

You know research was done before this change. And it was found that the majority of people would be fine with their organs being donated but simply hadn't got around to registering as a donor. Whether those who were actually against it had no problem actively opting out and would actually prefer this as there would be no using around there decision, it would be categorically known that they didn't believe in organ donation. That's why the law changed, because it caters best to what people on the whole believed.

Let me ask you, if you saw someone collapse on the street would you not administer first aid/CPR in case they had a DNR order? Or would they, like the majority, would want to live and that DNR's need express awareness of them before being adhered to (this is why some people with them wear medical bracelets or tattoo it on themselves).

When organ donation was voluntary I was opted in. Once Big State chooses to take away our rights - that is when I opted out.
That makes no sense. You were happy to donate your organs to save someone's life, until the state made the system opt out (which didn't affect you as someone who opted in) and now you're going to deny someone else the chance of life to try and score points against the government.

I highly doubt anyone one the organ transplant list thinks 'I would love a transplant, but now I can't have one I'm going to tell the government how wrong they are on opt out donations'

It should always have been an opt in service and like you I had opted in but I will opting out now because of the way this has been done.

How bizarre. So you were happy to donate your organs, the system changed in a way which didn’t affect you at all, and now you’re no longer happy - even though you don’t disagree with organ donation - because you want to make some nebulous, badly reasoned point about ‘big government’?

Luckily there will be a sufficient increase in organ donors as a result of this change to more than compensate for this strident lack of critical thinking.

I've not heard anyone saying that people are unreasonable to want to live any semblance of a normal life again. Like, no one.

It's a tough time for the vast majority of us. Some people think differently about the dangers than you do. It does not make them heartless.

YANBU at all

Organ donation: thank goodness that it is finally opt-out. The only sensible and humane route. The scare-mongering around this is madness.

Yanbu. Some people have lost all perspective and the ability to listen to reason.

Yeah because it's my body and I decide and the state has no right to enforce the decision on anyone behalf. I do think its appalling and if I needed a transplant I wouldnt want one, if this body fails me it fails me that's life and it's my life and my body and I decide!

Your basically saying you sont respect my decision to opt out unless it fits your narrow definition of a good reason who is anyone to judge another person and tell them what they should or shouldn't do with their body when they die, the state shouldn't and nor should anyone else. As I said it's my body my choice and noone else's business.

I did think that when I saw the plans for opening schools with social distancing in place. Completely inappropriate for tiny humans and potentially very damaging.

I highly doubt anyone one the organ transplant list thinks 'I would love a transplant, but now I can't have one I'm going to tell the government how wrong they are on opt out donations' I have no idea how this turned into a discussion on organ donation, but FWIW,I need a heart transplant and I disagree with opt out.

While I agree that some of the wording above is scaremongering, the reality is that we spend our lives fighting for bodily autonomy and as such to say that as soon as we die we become the possession of the state goes against that.

The people who should make the final decisions should be the people who know the potential donor well,and under the current change,the next of kin still have the overriding say. Therefore the most important step towards organ donation is to have the conversation with your family to discuss your wishes so they can be the ones who make the decision in accordance with what you wanted.

Opt-out is a headline grabber and there is a lot of evidence that it can in fact reduce or at least makes very little change to the amounts of organs being donated, because people who haven’t opted out still aren’t having the conversations with their family,and family are still refusing to allow donation because they never had the discussion,because not opting out doesn’t mean that you end up being taken away for donation regardless of your wishes.

Organ donation is a gift. No-one should be made to do it.As a future recipient the idea that waiting for an organ means that you are waiting,and therefore hoping,for someone to die is not a comfortable one.

The idea that someone could be taken away without either their family’s input or consent purely because they didn’t have a conversation is one which would make me consider whether my right to an organ should trump the right for the bereaved to have the final decision for their loved one.

AlternativePerspective
It was some reference to state owning our bodies.
Some of us were confused by the position 'i opted in to donate my organs but now it's opt out I've taken myself off the list'.

It should always have been an opt in service and like you I had opted in but I will opting out now because of the way this has been done.

You’re very lucky you will never know who you could have saved but decided not to because you went in a huff at “the state”.

@ Giespeace but it is possible to opt out and still have the conversation with your family and have your organs donated.

This is why opt out so often doesn’t work.Because people opt out believing that they’re just not donating their organs because the state has the say and therefore never actually having the conversation with their family to ensure that their wishes are still carried out.

If someone who would previously have donated decides that they’re just not going to do so then I agree that it’s churlish. But if like me they want the decisions to be made by those who know them best then it’s understandable to opt out and still have the conversation.

Do bear in mind that even before we had opt out, around 48% of people who were on the donor list had their organs refused by family purely because they never had the conversation.

YABU. Everything people in history have been through and people about today are whinging because they can’t go out or see family for a few months.

You think this is hard but you’ve got absolutely no idea. Of course you can cope not seeing your partner/friends/relatives while we get this under control.