To think soon it won’t be socially acceptable to fly

[Pigletspal]

I’m sad because I’ve been saving up for 6 years to go on holiday. I want to go to South America and Southeast Asia next year. I’ve also just got a job with a decent wage and I have been looking forward to much to making holidays a regular thing.

But they’re about to get more expensive aren’t they?

And suddenly I feel guilty about wanting to fly. One of my friends has already said that she will be going on “one last” foreign holiday and then stopping due to climate change.

And I really want to save the planet too. I’m just sad that it’s all going this way.
Am I overreacting or shall I get used to the idea my travelling days are numbered?

I also dont want the over reliance on cars to return. It's been lovely without all that horrible traffic This is much more important than flights. People who talk about 'saving the planet'. You're not.

So if we've got approx 30 or 40 years before the Arctic literally melts. There are surprisingly few of you who seem to want to change your behaviours, interesting.......

As I said upthread we need to change MOST of our ways.

We should go back to when having a big holiday overseas was something you did a few times in your life. Really memorable like Macchu Pichu or walking the Rhine and not a forgettable throwaway beach waste of time. Utter snobbery. I've no interest in seeing Macchu Pichu or walking the Rhine or lying on a beach for two weeks. No holiday is more virtuous than another.

The issue with veganism is long term deficiencies to iron, b vitamins and essential fatty acids and Zinc. Very difficult to do these

It’s is not remotely difficult. I take one b12 vitamin a day and that’s it. Recently had blood tests due to being pregnant (I told the midwife I’m vegan) and I am suffering from no deficiencies whatsoever.

There’s plenty of vegan sources of dietary iron - legumes, tahini, dried fruit, green leafy veg, chickpeas, seeds. Same with Omega 3 (nori, edamame beans, chia hemp and flax seeds, soybean oil and kidney beans). Zinc is in beans, chickpeas, lentils, tofu, walnuts, cashew nuts, chia seeds, ground linseed, hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds, wholemeal bread and quinoa.

As well as the supplement I take, I get B12 from fortified cereals, marmite, oat milk and bread. Many non-vegans get a lot of their nutrients from fortified foods as well, particularly bread and cereals. B12 deficiency is often found in non-vegans, so it’s not a bad idea for everyone to take a supplement.

The American Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics has confirmed that a well planned vegan diet is suitable for people at all stages of life.

People say ‘the problem with veganism is long term nutritional deficiencies’ because it’s a convenient excuse for not making the change, but it’s not true. There are some people for whom veganism would be much harder to sustain healthily (due to, for example, medical conditions or allergies) but for the most part it is as healthy, nutritious and safe as an omnivorous diet (as well has having specific advantages, such as decreased cholesterol and reduced risk of heart attack).

Well I would be really stuck if I had to become a vegan. From your list of suggested foods @zscaler, the ONLY things I would dream of eating are wholemeal bread, green leafy vegetables and maybe walnuts. The rest I wouldn't touch with a bargepole - mostly because of their taste.

Looking at some of the previous posts I'm minded to ask that if people think flying is going to become "socially unacceptable" is it also going to become socially unacceptable to consume anything that has travelled by air at any point in it's journey to the consumer..

So if we've got approx 30 or 40 years before the Arctic literally melts. There are surprisingly few of you who seem to want to change your behaviours, interesting.......

I’m in my early 60s so if I make it to 100 I will be happy enough to be honest

I think we should all have air miles and allowed to do so many a year. Those that don't want to fly could sell or gift them.

No holiday is more virtuous than another

I agree with this. I do think that flying abroad should be a "once in a decade" thing though.

Bubbly There are more than a few more people than you on the planet which might be something you hadn't thought about.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/18/more-than-1800-private-planes-landed-in-uk-during-covid-19-lockdown

I really hope that the Airlines clean up their act, with green fuels etc. Also the vast cruisers and tankers. The fuel they use at the moment is sooo bad that they can only use it 7 miles away from the coasts.

I don’t doubt that there will be a large amount of sanctimonious virtue signalling about flying less and ‘saving the planet’. I also don’t doubt that when covid is over and economic activity returns to something resembling normality, the statistics on the number of people flying will resume their previous growth trajectory.

Life is short, and it isn’t a dress rehearsal. I have no intention of flying less.

Yep we should be flying less, consuming less and breeding less but we won't so...🤷🏻‍♀️

Life is short Yes and let's try our best to make it even more so eh! Specially for the young.

Well I would be really stuck if I had to become a vegan. From your list of suggested foods @zscaler, the ONLY things I would dream of eating are wholemeal bread, green leafy vegetables and maybe walnuts. The rest I wouldn't touch with a bargepole - mostly because of their taste.

Fair enough - I’m actually in a similar position because the taste of blood and animal flesh (as well as the texture of fat, gristle and sinews) is completely disgusting to me. I would take a chickpea curry, fresh pesto pasta or asparagus risotto over steak, chicken or sausages any day of the week, but we are all different and have different tastes!

You could, of course, only eat the vegan foods you do enjoy and make up for any nutritional shortfall with supplements. Many people do (affectionately known as Junk Food Vegans).

Life is short Yes and let's try our best to make it even more so eh! shock Specially for the young. shock
I’m in my early 20s and I can’t bloody wait to go abroad and neither can any of my friends. I have a few friends who go abroad 3 times a year though most go once a year. Let people do what they want, life is too short not to go and explore other place and cultures. I don’t want to get to old age and look back and think ‘fuck I didn’t go abroad and explore the world when I had the chance’ and have regrets about it. I think the young are far more brought up with foreign holidays actually and you’d struggle to find people my age who would be happy just going to Cornwall every year without having a foreign holiday.

Yes zscaler Also the production of the fresh vegan foods is a lot kinder (to the environment and the animals) than industrial animal farming.

So go by train. Ruby IMO a lot of the people whose 'cultures' you love seeing are not so sure they want tourists effing up their countries, mountains etc etc. I can't believe how badly some tourists treat other places. The wonderful stag and hen do's. In lovely places like Prague. Stay home and get pissed.

Foreign holidays aren't all stags and hens fucking up foreign cities, not all holidays are accessible by train and many people in areas that see a lot of tourists are economically dependant on the money that tourists spend.

My usual foreign holiday is scuba diving somewhere like the Canary Islands or Malta. I'm not going there by train and if a lot of people stop visiting, whether it is for watersports or to get pissed in the sun, then there's a lot of people who are going to see their income disappear.

If it were me I'd prefer to have my island than see it disappear under flooding.Do we have to decide between incomes and a future for our children and grandchildren ?

There may be other ways to earn livings, a lot of people change their occupations everywhere.

Oh and often on holiday islands the 'locals" are Brits anyway.

then there's a lot of people who are going to see their income disappear

Yes, and ensuring people who currently rely on tourism for income have viable alternatives needs to be an important part of our plans to act urgently on climate change. But it is going to be a lot easier to manage that than to find a new planet if we continue the way we are and make this one uninhabitable.

So go by train. Ruby IMO a lot of the people whose 'cultures' you love seeing are not so sure they want tourists effing up their countries, mountains etc etc. I can't believe how badly some tourists treat other places. The wonderful stag and hen do's. In lovely places like Prague. Stay home and get pissed
Travelling by train adds so much time to the holiday though and it’s more hassle. I don’t fancy getting a train all the way up to Sweden or all the way down to Greece.
Why are you assuming that tourists are unwelcome everywhere? I’m not talking about travelling to places like the Amazon, I’m talking about places where a massive part of the economy is money gained from British tourism.
FYI I don’t go to places and get pissed I go to explore the cities and the history so no need to get snarky thanks. You sound like a massive snob and you’re unable to comprehend that not all British tourists are like what you see on that show Benidorm.

Oh I don't think I posted anything personal about YOU Ruby .

.....-we have to act urgently - on climate change... to find a new planet if we continue the way we are and make this one uninhabitable