To think soon it won’t be socially acceptable to fly

[Pigletspal]

I’m sad because I’ve been saving up for 6 years to go on holiday. I want to go to South America and Southeast Asia next year. I’ve also just got a job with a decent wage and I have been looking forward to much to making holidays a regular thing.

But they’re about to get more expensive aren’t they?

And suddenly I feel guilty about wanting to fly. One of my friends has already said that she will be going on “one last” foreign holiday and then stopping due to climate change.

And I really want to save the planet too. I’m just sad that it’s all going this way.
Am I overreacting or shall I get used to the idea my travelling days are numbered?

@Hugglespuffed flying is an extraordinary privilege and luxury. Of course it should cost far more than it does. The fact that we (ground dwelling apes) seem to think getting into a pressurised tube and hurtling at several hundred miles an hour through the atmosphere at 30,000 feet is just another every day experience really means our collective thinking needs to be adjusted.

Flying overseas is not a right. It is a luxury. It is only in the last 40 or 50 years that mass international travel has become a thing. And yet people now expect to be able to have a sunny beach holiday in Europe every year.

Yes, seeing other cultures and new places is a great pleasure. I don't deny it.

But so is having a big house in the country, fast cars, horses, buying expensive art. There are many things the rich can afford that the poor can't (not that that needs stating of course). It sucks, but the answer is not to ruin the planet in the name of equality.

If I were you I would go vegan (or even just vegetarian) and continue to fly. The impact of meat consumption is significantly greater than the impact of a couple of flights per year, and imo it’s much less arduous to give up meat that to give up travel and holidays.

If you’re already vegan or veggie then I wouldn’t feel too guilty about the odd flight. You’ve already made the single most impactful change a person can make (apart from deciding not to have children / to have fewer children).

Plan your big trip of a lifetime, OP. Of course you can do this. But I think people need to learn to be happy with not going on multiple trips a year. Personally, I hardly fly. On average, I fly once every 5 years- if that!
I'd rather fly out on a classy, safe airline to Southeast Asia and walk the corridors of Angkor Wat and not fly again for 5-10 years than hop all over the place on Ryanair. Low-cost travel is hell, from start to finish, and I cannot consciously support it. I've always thought that these cheap, claptrap airlines have had a terrible impact on our climate and on our way of living. Covid-19 is the proverbial hens coming home to roost.
I think it will be harder for people who came of age in the era of low cost travel. I grew up in a time when a trip to Europe (I'm American) was something you might do once in your childhood with your family (and mainly because your parents came from there). When I was a teenager (19), I interrailed all over Europe. When I lived in Europe, I took trains instead of planes whenever possible. I still do.
You just have to choose wisely and consciously when you book flights and make travel plans.

Maybe it should be something you need a permit for? So each adult can apply for a travel permit whenever they want to fly somewhere. Their overall airmiles total is used to check whether a permit can be issued, with a cap on airmiles over say a 5year period.

Stricter regs for businesses (airmiles permitted based on size of organisation?)

I think there is a vast difference between flying occasionally for holidays or similar, and flying regularly for business or simply because you can. I think many businesses are realising now that they don't need to fly as much, which is good. Those who do because they can will continue to do what they want. There is no reason to be ashamed of flying - there is much cultural enrichment in travelling. Anyone who is judging you for your decisions isn't a friend anyway, and if they aren't a friend they can take a hike. Travelling days aren't numbered, and prices may be a bit more expensive for a while, but things will calm down again eventually.

Continue to plan and enjoy your travelling - get the most out of it and have fun.

The only people who claim not to go on holiday out of choice (rather than life circumstances or money) only exist on mumsnet.

@Quartz2208 unfortunately tourism underpins much of many economies because of mass tourism. Mass tourism has ruined so much of the culture that people flock to see. This has been known about for ages (I was taught this in GCSE geography!).

It hollows out local communities and makes them entirely dependent on overseas money. Local culture, traditional architecture, crafts, food, is often pushed aside in favour of hotels and cheap restaurants and bars. People can't afford to live where they were born. The use of local dialects / languages is reduced. Big tour operators come in and siphon off the seasonal cash flow, often leaving locals no better off. The traffic of people damages historical sites and natural landscapes - not to mention the overcrowded beaches and towns.

The fact tourists spend money doesn't excuse the wrecking ball taken to local communities in other ways.

Couldn't care less what people think of my travelling. We go abroad 3 times a year and will continue to do so as soon as we're allowed.
Business travel however should reduce drastically, where i work we've found things can actually work via Teams/Skype so they don't need to fly halfway round the world for a 5 hour meeting then some 'team time'
If travel reduces places like Fiji/Caribbean etc will be in big trouble :-(

My daughter lives in Australia.

I'm damn well going to carry on flying out there once every couple of years to see her while I can, because travelling may well be limited for me, if I get ill and can't get insurance to travel!

Carry on planning, OP. The problem doesn't come from us, it comes from people who use planes like buses where other options are available (or for their 'weekends away' to the Continent).

The only people who claim not to go on holiday out of choice (rather than life circumstances or money) only exist on mumsnet.

You don't need a plane to go on holiday.

Well I mean there are so many more substantial things you could do to reduce your carbon footprint than to not go on a couple of holidays. To be blunt though I think the whole worried about climate change thing will pass soon. I remember back in my day when it was super cool to be a climate activist and now it’s a bit mainstream. It’s certainly very much followed the same fad pattern as the 40 hour famine, veganism, pubic hair in public and so on. I’m sure in ten years most people will go back to not giving a shit.

There's no reason why air fuel should continue to be tax-exempt. This could be one way of clawing back a small% of the cost of furlough etc.

Selfishly though, as a non-flyer, I don't want to have to pay more on trains, coaches, campsites etc when air travel becomes too expensive for other people's holidays and they encroach on mine!

I don't have any children.

I don't overconsume, go in for lots of gadgets, nick nacks, tat, fast fashion, endless home redecoration, that sort of thing. Just about everything I buy, I keep for years and only replace it when it wears out.

I eat hardly any meat.

My one indulgence is to fly to different parts of Europe maybe 3 or 4 times a years for holidays and damn right I'm going to carry on doing that as much as I can once we are allowed to and I won't feel a shred of guilt.

While people carry on having 3/4/5+ children, replacing their wardrobes and stuff in their house multiple times a year, washing clothes etc after a single wear, eating meat every day, using cleaning products by the gallon and driving big cars short distances, my carbon footprint from a few European flights is a tiny fraction of most people's so the few flights I do take barely register an impact on the planet.

@bibliomania
Eurostar, a couple of trains to Russia, then trans-siberian to Asia

Love this idea. Train travel feels like a proper adventure

I wouldn't mind if I never flew again (not completely terrified, I'll get on a plane but it's not my favourite thing in the world)

I might like DD to have the experience but she doesn't need to (I didn't get on a plane until I was 18) and there are a few places I'd love to travel to but mainly in Europe so doable by train.

I cannot wait to travel again. Everyone I have spoken to has said the same, do not worry.

Cannot wait to travel again. My Mum is in the UK and I am in NZ - so looking forward to seeing her again.

@Zaphodsotherhead but there are other options available to you. You could take a boat.

I’m not seriously suggesting that you do that but just wanted to point out how hypocritical you are being.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz
Maybe it should be something you need a permit for? So each adult can apply for a travel permit whenever they want to fly somewhere. Their overall airmiles total is used to check whether a permit can be issued, with a cap on airmiles over say a 5year period.

Stricter regs for businesses (airmiles permitted based on size of organisation?)

Terrible idea!! I live abroad, are you telling me that if I go home to visit family and use up my "allotted" miles and then a relative gets sick then I cannot fly again? Or what happens if my husband loses his job and again, we have used up our miles...

I generally go on holiday in the UK anyway. Theres so much here to see. It wouldn't bother me if flights were too expensive for most. If that's what it takes so be it.

I feel the same. For various reasons, I have not been to places I would have liked to have gone, and now feeling like the chance has gone. Not necessarily by plane, because any travel involves being in close proximity for long periods.

The only people who claim not to go on holiday out of choice (rather than life circumstances or money) only exist on mumsnet.

You don't need to fly across the globe to go on holiday, though.

There are plenty of places to visit in the UK - I know it's an unpopular view on MN to want to stay in your own country though - because heaven forbid it rains on your holiday

Or get the Eurostar or ferry and travel around Europe.

Veganism isn’t exactly a fad. There has been a year on year increase, and numbers in the U.K. have quadrupled over the last 6 years. Vegan food is also the UK’s fastest growing takeaway food, and almost a quarter of all new food launches in the U.K. last year we’re vegan products.

It may prove to be a fad one day in the future, but it’s currently very much in its ascendancy (along with huge increases in related movements like vegetarianism, pescatarianism and flexitarianism).

Flying for business purposes will change but I think people will be flying for holidays as soon as they're able. I know several people who are hoping to fly this year.

Flying will probably get more expensive for a couple of years. I won't stop flying though unless I'm priced out, socially acceptable or not.