To think soon it won’t be socially acceptable to fly

[Pigletspal]

I’m sad because I’ve been saving up for 6 years to go on holiday. I want to go to South America and Southeast Asia next year. I’ve also just got a job with a decent wage and I have been looking forward to much to making holidays a regular thing.

But they’re about to get more expensive aren’t they?

And suddenly I feel guilty about wanting to fly. One of my friends has already said that she will be going on “one last” foreign holiday and then stopping due to climate change.

And I really want to save the planet too. I’m just sad that it’s all going this way.
Am I overreacting or shall I get used to the idea my travelling days are numbered?

We have to fly less. YANBU.

I don't drive, I recycle, I grow my own fruit and veg, quite honestly I think my having one flight a year, along with a hundred or more others, to a place that badly needs tourism to keep the economy going, is quite acceptable.

Travel insurance will cost a bomb especially to the USA and with no EU health card to fall back on in Europe, foreign travel may well be a thing of the past.

It’s also worth noting that up until fairly relatively recently it’s only been the West whose had the means to travel extensively. That’s changing.

Take China for example - the amount of Chinese who own a passport is set to double in the 20s as more and more people start to fall into the ‘middle class’ category. The amount of people wanting to travel internationally is going to grow massively. As if China is going to advice from Western countries telling them not to fly!

So may as well not worry about it!

Travel insurance will cost a bomb especially to the USA

I had wondered what was happening with insurance. Eg when Italy lets people in, what, if anything, insurers will change.

Travel insurance simply will not cover coronavirus, at least not for a long time.

I don't think the travel insurance will be much different to buy tbh. It just won't cover pandemics.

What is it you do zscaler ? I'd love to know about your wonderful contribution to society.

This isn’t really about who’s contributing wonderfully to society, is it? It’s about whether the environmental impact of flying is going to make it socially unacceptable. It’s very clear to me from the science that the impact from the few flights I take is far less significant than the reduction in my impact that has resulted from me being vegan.

That’s why I raised it in the first place; because I’m not going to feel guilty about flying when I am making much more significant contributions elsewhere, and I would love for others to consider doing the same if it would work for them.

I think travel is a good thing. It benefits us to feel connected to the world, to have our horizons broadened by experiencing different cultures, landscapes and environments, and to share our wealth with those who depend on tourism for financial stability. Compared to that, the opportunity to eat chicken / steak / sausages / whatever pales in comparison. I feel like I lose nothing by not eating animal products, but I would lose so much by not travelling any more.

So I’m going to fly where necessary without feeling too bad about it, knowing that I’ve already made the single biggest difference I can make to my carbon footprint.

So I’m going to fly where necessary without feeling too bad about it, knowing that I’ve already made the single biggest difference I can make to my carbon footprint. So you denigrating my life's work is OK just so you can justify jetting here there and everywhere? You're not really George Monbiot are you He attacks us sheep farmers with venom but he doesn't advocate going on plane journeys.

Necessity is the mother of invention. The first test hydrogen flights are already being run, with larger passenger flights chalked for 2040s. That will revolutionise flying.

So if everyone does their bit in various parts of their lives, and tries to minimise flying to once a year or less (unless they have a job where they need to fly), we can try to minimise the damage until we can get the alternative to a mass market.

Weirdly covid 19 might be just what the planet needed......(apart from the billions of tons of extra single use plastic we are creating right now 🙄).

So you denigrating my life's work is OK just so you can justify jetting here there and everywhere?

I go on one return flight per year which I don’t think quite lives up to your characterisation of ‘jetting here and there’.

And I’m not denigrating your life’s work. I haven’t said anything to denigrate any farmer. I’ve simply said that if we want to have any prospect of limiting the disaster of climate change then the U.K. as a whole has to consume vastly less meat, and that there’s little point obsessing about the much smaller impact of flying if we’re all ignoring the much bigger issue of meat consumption. We can’t simply see the lives of all of the animals and humans who will be killed by climate change as the acceptable cost of eating meat.

Would you take out travel insurance that didn’t cover pandemics, knowing that Covid 19 is still lurking in the shadows? Intensive care in the USA for a few weeks would cost hundreds of thousands.

Nope, it's way too ingrained in the modern psyche

Fly where you want to, enjoy your trip you have been saving towards!

I think cruising holidays should be limited until they become greener with electricity or hydrogen fuel!

Good luck to everyone who will holiday in this country,due to whatever reason you won't fly. You can stay in a hotel abroad inc flights for SO much less than a UK 4day break, plus, if you want sunshine there are many places abroad where it's guaranteed. Saying that, if UK hoteliers weren't so greedy,many of us WOULD holiday here, as we have so much beautiful countryside. I for one, will not stop flying,as I enjoy different cultures,food etc. Hope the ones who go on & on & on about climate change,who say we should stop using cars,trains,planes etc don't do online shopping, after all,how do you get your goods delivered,then,returned, if it's not what you want!!????

I thought flying was much worse than pretty much anything else you do except having lots of kids?. Which is flipping annoying as we loved travel. Multiple flights is pretty unjustifiable though. Unfortunately

I absolutely live for my yearly holiday wherever that may be! I think I enjoy planning and looking forward to it probably equally as much as the actual holiday! It’s why we go to work and save to experience different cultures and make memories. Air travel is not the only cause of climate change. I would rather walk more places make better choices while shopping like buying local using less plastic throw away products but keep my amazing holidays once a year that gives us memories to last a lifetime!!

@Tigerlilly17

Aircrafts are getting greener all the time. They already have reduced emissions by up to 20% in the last 5 years alone.

Yep, anybody who has been in this currently unfashionable business long enough has seen fuel "burn" per sector plummet as engines and aircraft have become more economical and operational procedures have changed to improve efficiency. The problem of course is that whilst "burn" per sector improves down, flight numbers are up.

I look forward to some other industries not currently in the cross wires cleaning up their act in a similar manner.

I also read that eating local meat is better than some vegan products that have been shipped in from the rainforest. Not sure it’s as simple as “meat is bad”

No it wont.

Many people who moan about climate change still like to have their foreign holidays. So yeah...

When I say no it won’t, I meant no it won’t be socially unacceptable.

I also read that eating local meat is better than some vegan products that have been shipped in from the rainforest.

This is unfortunately not true. This article is very accessible and explains it very clearly with a useful graph: ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local

Transport accounts for only a fraction of the overall emissions for something like beef; it therefore makes virtually no difference whether it’s local or not. Transport does make up a much larger proportion of the emissions of those foods which are flown in from abroad (which is actually not that much - most imported foods are shipped, not flown) but even so, the overall impact including this increased transport cost is much, much higher than for foods which aren’t meat.

As the graph in that link shows, meat products (whether local or not) far outstrip non meat products when it comes to emissions just by virtue of their being meat.

Damn!

I agree.

I'm sad too. But I am grateful that I did a lot of travelling, in my late teens, pre uni, before it so well known about climate.

I guess my ds's will never know that freedom I was allowed.

I still long to go somewhere, occasionally. I'm longing now. An occasional trip to Europe, somewhere like Riga, somewhere I've never been. Will that even be allowed?

I think to people who care about climate change it will be unacceptable, those that don't not. Probably not the answer you want to hear, sorry. Someone's suggestion to consider offsettingcarbon is good.