Parents wfh and the furloughed for childcare

[baskininjoe]

I am childless, currently by choice because I am in my twenties but do plan to have a child in the future at some point.

AIBU to be getting annoyed with the short end of the stick that the childless are getting right now with everything regarding childcare and lockdown.

I have so many colleges who are currently wfh whilst looking after children. I completely sympathise and understand this is hard but I am really starting to get annoyed with them being less productive, and logging less hours for the same pay (no reduction), whilst the rest of us are expected to pick up the slack, and work more hours to make sure tasks still get completed, whilst not being paid anymore for our extra time and effort. I know there is no perfect solution but it really grates on me that they aren't being paid for what they complete which could therefore compensate the rest of us for the extra we are having to do because they are not fully fulfilling their role.

On top of this with the idea of school provisionally going back in June some of these parents have said they will not be sending their DC to school, despite a place being open and available to them, and therefore expect the rest of us to continue to pick up their slack because they can't work as productively whilst looking after their children.

My housemate (shared house) works in a place where many parents have been furloughed for childcare reasons, despite their being lots of work to do, just because they've asked to be. This means that my housemate has been incredibly stressed as the workload is still high but the team is now smaller, whilst many of their colleges are receiving 80% on the taxpayer, despite their actually being work for them to do, all because they complained to their employer that it was too hard working with children and thus asking to be furloughed. This is especially grating as it is taxpayer money that is being used to pay them, despite their actually being a job they could do and be payed for.

I am not at all against the furlough scheme, another of my housemates work in a restaurant and is also on furlough and this is absolutely the right thing as they can not work, despite wanting to, as their place of work is not allowed to open.

However I think:

1. Some employers and employees are taking the piss by allowing staff to be furloughed/asking to be furloughed despite their actually being a job to do. Which then negatively affects the rest of the teams as the work level remains the same but there are less people to do the work so the remaining people have to work harder with no extra pay.

1. Employers need to be understanding but also firm with parents that although some productively will be affected by having DC at home, a certain level still needs to be consistently met or they are not doing their job properly and that negatively affects the business and the rest of the team.

1. Employers need to be especially understanding and grateful to employees still working, who are picking up the slack for those not being as productive because of DC at home/furloughed for childcare reasons despite their still being work. And actually need to consider financially compensating them for the high level of extra work and overtime and/or promise to look at these people first for upcoming promotions as as they have shown serious dedication to the business.

1. Employers should not be allowing parents to choose not to send DC to school when they can if it continues to affect the parents productivity level.

I understand this is a hard time for everyone, and parents do have it hard with few childcare options for DC, however that is not the problem of their colleagues and they should not be negatively affected by being expected to work far far more for no extra gain. My housemate and I are stressed beyond belief both having to work 10-12 hours every day for what would be a 9-5 office job in order to pick up the slack for colleagues whilst not being paid anymore whilst these colleagues are only completely 4-6 hours a day yet continuing to be paid the same as us. And on top of this are expecting it to continue despite their child being able to go to school soon because they are choosing not to send them.

How many times are posters told school is not childcare and teachers are there to teach your children, not as childcare. This is why parents are responsible for covering sick days. Otherwise school would provide a separate wing for sick children, as hoarding schools do because in that case school is childcare, but not for day school.

Come on, OP, I've been sympathetic to your situation and position but this is very silly as a position. I mean, what about my two year old's nursery and childminder - that is childcare, so is it ok that I relied on it as such? What about after school clubs? They're all gone too right now.

Are you actually saying that no one with a child young enough to need care should work because you need to be prepared for a situation where all childcare collapses at once?

what happens if (like much of MN predicts) this goes on for 18 months to forever. At that point it's not unprecedented it just life.

What will happen is that mothers (and we all know that it will largely be mothers) will exit the workforce. Young children need care and supervision or they don't survive. That is the bottom line. With unreliable childcare or no childcare parents simply will not be available to work as they did before.

Society has a choice: on principle, do they want mothers in paid work? A 'yes' here means extra hours for people like you until Covid is over, unfortunately.

Or does society want mothers available at the drop of a hat to perform work that is usually outsourced to childcare? If the answer here is yes, you can relax. Companies will make parents redundant and mothers must suck up the loss of their careers and financial independence. This will affect women who plan to have children in the future, including you.

I was responding to this because I don't see why people should be.

And I was responding to the OP looking for appreciation for the bit of extra work she’s doing.

Nice selective quoting though, always great to tell half the story to strengthen your point.

Anyway, we’re all making sacrifices, I’m sure we’d all like them to be acknowledged, but most of us are big girls and can live without it.

Not even formal childcare. We moved to live near our parents when ds was tiny to help with childcare. All grandparents are under 60, at least semi retired and happy to have DS regularly. However they can't help at the moment, which is sensible to avoid an Italy situation, but very very hard whilst it's happening

"It is such a unique situation that I do think those with easier situations should be taking the strain for those that don’t. That’s how society should work isn’t it?"

That is a new level of entitlement.
I have chosen to have 3 children and a fourth on the way, I don't expect anyone to pick up the slack for me. If I couldn't manage to work my full hours then I would take the pay cut that would come with not working my hours and deal with it. Not expect others to do the work because 'it's easier for them' and I keep my pay. Fwiw some of my childless colleagues do have it worse than me I think with their own personal issues and mental health issues. So it's not an easy assessment but we should all work together to get through it. As part of that I expect fairness across the board and it is fair to be paid for the work that you do and not paid for the work that you do not do, whatever the reason for it.

I mean there is a reason why we all paid for childcare before this and it was written into wfh contracts that we had to have it.

Yet now, we’re being gaslighted into some idea that it’s not necessary and we should be just carrying on without it and if we can’t, we can’t deal with our choice to have children.

You can fuck right off with that one, thanks very much.

I do think that people should try and be grateful and nice about other people picking up their work - I have. I think that one is a temperament thing, though, and not unique to parents or this situation - I know people who would say thank you to someone covering for them when they're ill and I know people who would say 'why would I need to say thank you or apologise? It's not my fault I was ill'. I think the workplace is nicer with the former approach but, again, I don't think which you are is down to whether or not you have children.

If my employer offered a pay cut so I could reduced hours, I would bite their hand off. But like many many many businesses, we're being told to just do what we can. And now get to feel guilty that other people are doing more.

FWIW even with fitting in the essential childcare of my toddler I'm still able to work through my tasks because I'm highly experienced, technically skilled and organised. And that's what I'm paid for NOT how many exact minutes I spend logged into my computer.

We could take the viewpoint that if you're having to work so many extra hours you maybe aren't skilled enough, or, organised enough and the company should be looking at your performance capability first.

Or you're simply spending too much time on Mumsnet when you should be working, yes?

A selection criteria for redundancy should include things like long term performance, skills and experiences, and it shouldn't indirectly descriminate

I totally agree, but would suggest that in today's circumstances there's likely to be a difference between what should happen and what might well be the case. Do folk really think managers will make no distinction at all between parents who've genuinely done their best and those who've expected time off for every sniffle, every sports day, every nativity play ... ?

There really is only so much employers can give, and there's not much point in a discrimination case if the business no longer exists

How many times are posters told school is not childcare and teachers are there to teach your children, not as childcare. This is why parents are responsible for covering sick days. Otherwise school would provide a separate wing for sick children, as hoarding schools do because in that case school is childcare, but not for day school.

That's ridiculous though. I pay a fortune to a nursery, this is absolutely childcare and no one would argue otherwise, yet there is no provision for sick children and when DD is ill I am responsible for covering those days.

Both DH and I are currently wfh and it's impossible to be as productive as usual while looking after DD. But we are getting more done than if we'd been furloughed. But I do think if childcare is open and you choose not to use it and keep your children at home then you shouldn't be paid full pay unless you are doing your normal work load

*I mean there is a reason why we all paid for childcare before this and it was written into wfh contracts that we had to have it.

Yet now, we’re being gaslighted into some idea that it’s not necessary and we should be just carrying on without it and if we can’t, we can’t deal with our choice to have children.*

I don’t think that is the case at all. I haven’t seen a single post that implies people should be able to work in exactly the same way while caring for children. What many people are saying is that if you can’t do your hours effectively then it’s not fair to be paid the same.

That is a new level of entitlement

I wasn’t referring to me. I am picking up the slack for a colleague with a small child because my situation is easier.

@Treacletoots what an incredibly catty and bitchy post.

Exactly rainy!!

Laurie - it's fair for the employer to be flexible and understanding and that includes not looking to dismiss staff just because currently they cannot fulfill their contractual obligations. Also includes looking at creative ways for both parties to carry on with the contract. But also includes reducing hours and pay if appropriate. All very fair.

Do you honestly think anyone working long hours could do the same work in the blink of an eye if only they were better at their job? That’s just a ridiculous thing to say.

@Treacletoots self praise is no recommendation!

@LisaSimpsonsbff

No I'm not at all. But I'm saying if this virus is here to stay long term and this becomes the new way of life rather than an unprecedented blip parents need to re-evaluate their lives because school isn't childcare. For the short term there are obviously allowances but that can not last long term and then parents will have to make the tough choices that come with reduced working hours because of their children.

@treacletoot

"We could take the viewpoint that if you're having to work so many extra hours you maybe aren't skilled enough, or, organised enough and the company should be looking at your performance capability first."

No we bloody well can not. I am completing all my work in less than my contracted hours because I am pushing to be as productive as possible. The rest of my contracted hours and then overtime is taken up by doing other people's work and picking up slack. Don't you dare for a second suggest I am bad at my job. How insulting!

What @Quillink and @Londonmummy66 both said, very eloquently.

One thing the anti-parent brigade seem to be forgetting is that before we were parents, we were childfree too. Pre-parenthood we've all been that person in the office who stayed late or took work home or picked up slack and very possibly grumbled about the parent who whizzed out the door to do pick-up or was always a bit late because of drop-off; or we were the ones who had to pick up slack if a colleague was off ill, because the parent colleagues couldn't.

It's a thing you do in your 20s: work your bum off, be a bit chippy about it, climb the ladder, later on get a bit more flexibility because of seniority, get a bit more life experience, have a kid and stop sleeping and look back on office late nights with wonderment, become the person you used to resent because you have to leave bang-on 5pm, etc – lather rinse repeat for generations.

At the moment, everyone is picking up slack and being overworked in some way. The childfree are getting the parents' workload; parents are taking on teaching and nursery care; carers of the vulnerable and shielded are taking on extra caring duties. None of us, aside from famouses and billionaires, is awash with fun and free time right now.

You know how there's no good time in life to have a baby? There's no good time in life to have a pandemic. It's crap if you're young and overworked and in a houseshare, it's crap if you've got young children, it's crap if you've got school children, it's crap for e v e r y o n e. And I still fail to see how cutting parents' pay or shitting on us miraculously solves this.

No, I don't have any idea how this will work if it goes on for 18 months ( I suspect a lot of lives will be changed and ruined as much by lockdown and responses to the pandemic as by the pandemic itself), but we're not at that stage yet. It's been a couple of months. And right now, yeah, I expect my employer to support me a lot more than "well you can just take unpaid leave". Thankfully, they do.

Companies will make parents redundant and mothers must suck up the loss of their careers and financial independence.
Yes, this. I heard today an opinion that if a woman's salary is not sufficient to pay for a nanny, she is not that important or qualified, and is better off staying at home.
Not from someone previously known for holding extreme opinions, mind.

I agree with every word of your post @burritofan (and I also like burritos. Maybe you are right in all things)

Crack on with what you’re saying OP. The entitlement in some of these posts back to you is astounding.

I do think if childcare is open and you choose not to use it and keep your children at home then you shouldn't be paid full pay unless you are doing your normal work load

Once childcare is open again, I suspect this is where the crunch will come - also where the extension of furlough's begun to create unrealistic expectations

Already round here some parents are rehearsing reasons not to return to work when this is all over. One even insists that she's produced a future worker and so deserves some me time ... and been widely praised for it
Nobody suggests for an instant that most parents are like this, but they exist and will somehow have to be managed - and that won't be easy

If your employers business is only sustainable because some people are doing double the workload, then they need to address that.

This thread is littered with idiocy, this might take the biscuit though. The way they would address it is to force their members of staff back into work who don't have the capacity to do so due to circumstances out of their control. Or do you mean they should pay staff who are struggling and cannot work their full hours at the moment, as well as bring on additional members of staff? That makes zero business sense and when we are heading towards a recession is ludicrous.

Wow OP you are not coming across well in these posts today and your true thoughts are now coming shining out. Most people have given you good advice and you continue to give shit to parents.