Parents wfh and the furloughed for childcare

[baskininjoe]

I am childless, currently by choice because I am in my twenties but do plan to have a child in the future at some point.

AIBU to be getting annoyed with the short end of the stick that the childless are getting right now with everything regarding childcare and lockdown.

I have so many colleges who are currently wfh whilst looking after children. I completely sympathise and understand this is hard but I am really starting to get annoyed with them being less productive, and logging less hours for the same pay (no reduction), whilst the rest of us are expected to pick up the slack, and work more hours to make sure tasks still get completed, whilst not being paid anymore for our extra time and effort. I know there is no perfect solution but it really grates on me that they aren't being paid for what they complete which could therefore compensate the rest of us for the extra we are having to do because they are not fully fulfilling their role.

On top of this with the idea of school provisionally going back in June some of these parents have said they will not be sending their DC to school, despite a place being open and available to them, and therefore expect the rest of us to continue to pick up their slack because they can't work as productively whilst looking after their children.

My housemate (shared house) works in a place where many parents have been furloughed for childcare reasons, despite their being lots of work to do, just because they've asked to be. This means that my housemate has been incredibly stressed as the workload is still high but the team is now smaller, whilst many of their colleges are receiving 80% on the taxpayer, despite their actually being work for them to do, all because they complained to their employer that it was too hard working with children and thus asking to be furloughed. This is especially grating as it is taxpayer money that is being used to pay them, despite their actually being a job they could do and be payed for.

I am not at all against the furlough scheme, another of my housemates work in a restaurant and is also on furlough and this is absolutely the right thing as they can not work, despite wanting to, as their place of work is not allowed to open.

However I think:

1. Some employers and employees are taking the piss by allowing staff to be furloughed/asking to be furloughed despite their actually being a job to do. Which then negatively affects the rest of the teams as the work level remains the same but there are less people to do the work so the remaining people have to work harder with no extra pay.

1. Employers need to be understanding but also firm with parents that although some productively will be affected by having DC at home, a certain level still needs to be consistently met or they are not doing their job properly and that negatively affects the business and the rest of the team.

1. Employers need to be especially understanding and grateful to employees still working, who are picking up the slack for those not being as productive because of DC at home/furloughed for childcare reasons despite their still being work. And actually need to consider financially compensating them for the high level of extra work and overtime and/or promise to look at these people first for upcoming promotions as as they have shown serious dedication to the business.

1. Employers should not be allowing parents to choose not to send DC to school when they can if it continues to affect the parents productivity level.

I understand this is a hard time for everyone, and parents do have it hard with few childcare options for DC, however that is not the problem of their colleagues and they should not be negatively affected by being expected to work far far more for no extra gain. My housemate and I are stressed beyond belief both having to work 10-12 hours every day for what would be a 9-5 office job in order to pick up the slack for colleagues whilst not being paid anymore whilst these colleagues are only completely 4-6 hours a day yet continuing to be paid the same as us. And on top of this are expecting it to continue despite their child being able to go to school soon because they are choosing not to send them.

@MarieQueenofScots

"I think it’s a fairly simple fact that at the moment some people will be having it harder than others. That’s obvious isn’t it?"

I think it's a fairly simple fact that at any given time, pandemic or not, some people will have it harder than other. That's obvious isn't it?

It doesn't mean that those who still have it hard but not 'as hard' aren't still having a tough time, doesn't mean they don't have a right to complain.

When I lost my child I guarantee I was having a harder time than some parents stressed out over the school run, or not sleeping as much because of an unsettled baby. But they still had every right to complain as much as me, because there situation was still hard. Their sleepless night we're consumed by caring for someone they loved. Not depression, panic attacks and grief. Yet they were still having a hard time with sleepless night. No on gets a monopoly on hardship because theirs might be worse than someone else's equally valid hardship.

MarieQueenofScots

Yes but I don't base that solely on the fact that one person has kids and the other doesn't. Life is hard for different people for a whole myriad of reasons. It's not for me to tell anyone else that their problem isn't as bad as mine because I'm a parent.

I had serious mental health problems before children that would have had me seriously struggling in this situation, working extra hours, shut in unable to see friends/family. It's hard now with kids but I'd take this any day over how I felt then.

Fact is, just because you chose to have children and are now struggling with that doesn't mean that everyone else has to pick up the slack, help out, work all the hours to make up for it, work over holidays, Christmas etc... Not their children, not their problem. I know parents don't like to hear that but it's true. I don't expect anyone to put themselves out because of the fact I chose to breed and they didn't.

OP I think the overwhelming majority of people on here have said you are directing your frustrations at the wrong people. Take it up with your manager and/or escalate it if you are not getting the right response. You should be compensated for the additional hours, of course you should, so pull your big girls pants on and go and ask for overtime. I would also be preparing a paper/report on what it is critical to report on and where you can make efficiencies to give you some time back.

@sleepingstandingup

And that's exactly why I said In that post that it won't work for everyone, it's no a perfect solution. But for those that it will work for they should use it. There's plenty of 6-10 year olds who know how to use a remote, can toilet alone and would be enthralled and delighted by 4 hours of uninterrupted screen time. It won't work for everyone but it will work for some and it's a START.

I don't see any parents trying to come up with their own solutions either, everyone should be trying.

I think it's a fairly simple fact that at any given time, pandemic or not, some people will have it harder than other. That's obvious isn't it?

You’re really missing the point. The point is that, due to a very unique circumstance, everyone is being affected. I don’t think it’s too difficult to understand how parents trying to work from home whilst carrying out childcare have it more difficult than those who don’t need to try and do two jobs at once.

Nobody is saying you can’t complain. In fact a good number of people have said “speak to your employer if you can’t cope with the workload”.

I’m sorry for your loss.

I do tire of the "no one forced you to have children" line. Lucky for all of us that people did choose to have children who grew up to become the current crop of:

Doctors
Nurses
Paramedics
Care home staff
Lab technicians
Local authority, hospital and care home staff

You know, the people who didn't magically appear as adults but who were actual children once. The ones we are all relying on right now. Those ones.

We all rely on new life, like it or not. Saying "it's a lifestyle choice" is myopic, at the very least.

Balkin

It is such a unique situation that I do think those with easier situations should be taking the strain for those that don’t. That’s how society should work isn’t it?

So what would your answer be op, if you were Boris? Sack anyone or deduct pay accordingly for anyone who rent clock 35/7/40 hours of pay and sit back as families lose their homes site to the pandemic and say "well no one forced them to have children?". Businesses are sticking up lower productivity for fun. We're trying to keep the economy going as much as possible, keep families from losing their homes and not having the money for food. But you're right, just cut their wages or sack them, it'll be their own fault they can't feed their kids.

I see every parent I know racking their brains to come up with different solutions, so can only Imagine you havent thought too much about the parents you know to make a blanket assumption like that. You seem to think there’s a magic solution out there and parents are just too lazy and selfish to find out.

Well beargrass, let's not pretend that the world wouldn't be much better off if less people chose to oh so selflessly (yeah right) have children.

We rely on people yes, but there are far too many of them right now that I too tire of the 'but what if they grow up to be doctors' trope.

Sorry I hadn’t quite finished.

Ultimately it is not the OP’s responsibility to work herself into the ground over many months for no additional pay in order to address her colleagues lack of childcare and keep them on full pay. Too many people are minimising her contribution (and that of her colleagues in a similar position) as “1 -2 hours” when it’s clearly not.

I don't see any parents trying to come up with their own solutions either, everyone should be trying.

Come on now, you’ve read post after post on here about parents waking at 5, working through naps, working into the night, through the weekend.

The bottom line is that children need considerable care. Even your deeply problematic solution of putting them in front of screens for hours on end won’t work for all of them.

You just will not take this on board, which suggests quite considerable problems with empathy.

It is such a unique situation that I do think those with easier situations should be taking the strain for those that don’t

I mean firstly you've no idea who has it easier and who doesn't unless you know the ins and outs of everyone's life.

But secondly, if you think this way then how about being appreciative of the people who are taking on the strain? Rather than throwing a tantrum when they mention that they are finding it hard/frustrating and wailing about how much harder it is for you.

How about thanks OP for picking some of the slack up whilst we can't, we appreciate it and I'm sorry you're finding it difficult.

I too wouldn't be overjoyed at working extra hours for some of the people on this thread when they clearly think they are owed it.

Ultimately it is not the OP’s responsibility to work herself into the ground over many months for no additional pay in order to address her colleagues lack of childcare

And no one is saying it is.

Sheesh, the reading comprehension on here

What she needs to do is talk to her boss. Which she appears to be too scared to do.

There's plenty of 6-10 year olds who know how to use a remote, can toilet alone and would be enthralled and delighted by 4 hours of uninterrupted screen time. It won't work for everyone but it will work for some and it's a START. for a day or two maybe, not for 6 months. Not to mention that those 6-10 year olds will have work they need help with for school. And u suspect the parents of 6-10 year old are doing far more work in general than those with under 6s.

I don't see any parents trying to come up with their own solutions either, everyone should be trying. of course not op, every wfh parent is just sitting at home laughing at you whilst they twiddle their thumbs. No parents are getting up at stupid am to work before the kids get up, working off an evening or weekend to catch up, using far too much screen time to get an hour of work done etc. No one is sharing days with their wfh partner or leaving their furloughed / sahp to fight through on their own so they can work. Absolutely none of them.

Just renege this op in a few years when you hopefully have children of your own if god forbid this happens again, and your colleagues are telling you you shouldn't get paid or should quit because your juggling 3 kids and a full time job and getting your best to keep everyone happy

Op is being deliberately obtuse now. Many many people have agreed with you that it is unfair for you to be expected to pick up loads of extra work. They just disagree that it is the responsibility of working parents to manage this. If your employers business is only sustainable because some people are doing double the workload, then they need to address that. Moaning that people are able to do less work because they have full time care of children is just pointless. You want someone to direct your anger and frustration at, and you have chosen colleagues with children.

If you just want to have a moan, crack on. But don't expect people to have much sympathy. You don't want solutions, clearly.

And yes, having a miscarriage is rough. But just so you know, there are plenty of working parents who are also dealing with pregnancy loss as well. It's not a race to the bottom.

@beargrass come on let’s not pretend that our having children was an altruistic act for the good of society. It’s an entirely selfish act that we have chosen because we wanted to. The planet is vastly over populated already.

Rather than throwing a tantrum when they mention that they are finding it hard/frustrating and wailing about how much harder it is for you

I didn’t say how hard it is for me. I purposefully didn’t actually, that has no bearing on my opinion of the OP’s post. My whole point is empathy and direct your grievance at the people who can assist.

Ultimately it is not the OP’s responsibility to work herself into the ground over many months for no additional pay in order to address her colleagues lack of childcare and keep them on full pay. can you quote the posts where anyone has said this? As opposed to TALK TO YOUR BOSS

But secondly, if you think this way then how about being appreciative of the people who are taking on the strain?

I think society as a whole should be damn grateful that parents have picked up the slack of the entire childcare/school industry closing to help stop the spread of this disease.

Funny, I’m not seeing it.

But I’m a big girl and I’ll get on with what I need to do without expecting extra appreciation.

OP please read this thread and then speak to your boss.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3902119-is-it-just-me-or-is-this-working-from-home-with-children-completely-unsustainable

We have kids within the 6-10 bracket. Our routine is get up, school work whilst I work (maybe help with the odd thing mostly they do it by themselves though and we go over anything they struggled with in the evening), lunch and walk dog, then they entertain themselves for the afternoon.

Now I know not all kids are the same but I struggle to believe all these 'its impossible for a 6-10 year old to sit in front of a screen for 20 minutes and I must be with them at all times' comments. Ours would happily play Roblox for the whole afternoon if allowed and I wouldn't hear a peep unless they wanted snacks.

Looking after your own children is not 'picking up slack' Laurie

Perhaps you didn't specifically Marie but lots of posters have. And empathy... Well that works both ways doesn't it.

@GeeIneverthoughtofthat

"Ultimately it is not the OP’s responsibility to work herself into the ground over many months for no additional pay in order to address her colleagues lack of childcare and keep them on full pay. Too many people are minimising her contribution (and that of her colleagues in a similar position) as “1 -2 hours” when it’s clearly not."

Thank you for this.

To anyone saying just don't work the extra let me lay out what will then happen. We're not a big multinational, we're small so everyone is needed. If I don't do the extra work right now that means it just won't get done. So either we'll have to drop clients or they'll drop us first meaning less work all around. However this also means less money. The business will do everything it can to save itself so will have to reduce staffing. However not completely because there is still work to do, just not as much. They will therefore reduce by starting with the people who were struggling to complete the work, can't be consistent and reliable in what they can complete, which is the reason we lost the initial clients in the first place. This sadly, and through no fault of there own, will be the people working inconsistent hours due to childcare whilst still on full pay. That's not a threat, it's the sad reality of economics. The business, to try and stay afloat, will have to sack the 2 people on full pay whilst only working 20 hours rather than the 1 doing 40 hours. I don't want this to happen, I like my colleagues, I like my clients, I like my work, but it is the sad reality of economics. That's why I'm working crazy hours, so we don't lose clients and the business doesn't risk going under this causing redundancies. But I am still resentful of being in this situation because it is awful for me. I am exhausted, anxious and do feel like I deserve some compensation for it. And maybe even (and I expect a flaming for this) a little gratitude from parents, for recognising that I am doing this whilst they can't. And I understand that they can't but I am still grateful to people who do things for me, even though I physically can't do them. That's just how polite people work, we are grateful to anyone who makes our life easier, even in the cases where we pay these people like cleaners or plumbers, there is still gratitude. Not sneering that well you have it easier in the first place.

If your employers business is only sustainable because some people are doing double the workload, then they need to address that.

How exactly, without reducing the hours and pay of employees who aren’t working their contracted hours? Do you seriously think that any business is sustainable if half the employees aren’t doing the work their paid for and the other half refuse to do any overtime to compensate for that loss of productivity?

A lot of people on here seem to think that businesses have solutions to this situation that transcend the basic facts of economics. Businesses cannot pay people for work they aren’t not doing, without risking going bust. At the moment people like the OP are picking up that slack for free. If she refuses to, you seem to think there is some other magic solution? There really isn’t, aside from furlough and that will bankrupt the whole country if it goes much further.