Parents wfh and the furloughed for childcare

[baskininjoe]

I am childless, currently by choice because I am in my twenties but do plan to have a child in the future at some point.

AIBU to be getting annoyed with the short end of the stick that the childless are getting right now with everything regarding childcare and lockdown.

I have so many colleges who are currently wfh whilst looking after children. I completely sympathise and understand this is hard but I am really starting to get annoyed with them being less productive, and logging less hours for the same pay (no reduction), whilst the rest of us are expected to pick up the slack, and work more hours to make sure tasks still get completed, whilst not being paid anymore for our extra time and effort. I know there is no perfect solution but it really grates on me that they aren't being paid for what they complete which could therefore compensate the rest of us for the extra we are having to do because they are not fully fulfilling their role.

On top of this with the idea of school provisionally going back in June some of these parents have said they will not be sending their DC to school, despite a place being open and available to them, and therefore expect the rest of us to continue to pick up their slack because they can't work as productively whilst looking after their children.

My housemate (shared house) works in a place where many parents have been furloughed for childcare reasons, despite their being lots of work to do, just because they've asked to be. This means that my housemate has been incredibly stressed as the workload is still high but the team is now smaller, whilst many of their colleges are receiving 80% on the taxpayer, despite their actually being work for them to do, all because they complained to their employer that it was too hard working with children and thus asking to be furloughed. This is especially grating as it is taxpayer money that is being used to pay them, despite their actually being a job they could do and be payed for.

I am not at all against the furlough scheme, another of my housemates work in a restaurant and is also on furlough and this is absolutely the right thing as they can not work, despite wanting to, as their place of work is not allowed to open.

However I think:

1. Some employers and employees are taking the piss by allowing staff to be furloughed/asking to be furloughed despite their actually being a job to do. Which then negatively affects the rest of the teams as the work level remains the same but there are less people to do the work so the remaining people have to work harder with no extra pay.

1. Employers need to be understanding but also firm with parents that although some productively will be affected by having DC at home, a certain level still needs to be consistently met or they are not doing their job properly and that negatively affects the business and the rest of the team.

1. Employers need to be especially understanding and grateful to employees still working, who are picking up the slack for those not being as productive because of DC at home/furloughed for childcare reasons despite their still being work. And actually need to consider financially compensating them for the high level of extra work and overtime and/or promise to look at these people first for upcoming promotions as as they have shown serious dedication to the business.

1. Employers should not be allowing parents to choose not to send DC to school when they can if it continues to affect the parents productivity level.

I understand this is a hard time for everyone, and parents do have it hard with few childcare options for DC, however that is not the problem of their colleagues and they should not be negatively affected by being expected to work far far more for no extra gain. My housemate and I are stressed beyond belief both having to work 10-12 hours every day for what would be a 9-5 office job in order to pick up the slack for colleagues whilst not being paid anymore whilst these colleagues are only completely 4-6 hours a day yet continuing to be paid the same as us. And on top of this are expecting it to continue despite their child being able to go to school soon because they are choosing not to send them.

I would suggest your children may pay the price for this.

The horrible truth is that many children are being borderline neglected so that their parents can fulfil work obligations.

I have another friend who works for a multinational. She’s crazy busy during working hours, back to back conference calls. DP works in government, out all day.

Her 4 and 6 year old are basically watching TV for 8 hours a day.

Now, just imagine if someone admitted that before the crisis? Now apparently we’re all okay with it, because that’s how it is.

It’s a dreadful situation and the kids are suffering for it.

Yes @hammeringinmyhead there is a very strong element of indirect sex discrimination about all of this. Women are the ones paying the price.

What a selfish post. Is it really that hard to imagine what other people are going through.? The parents you're talking about would obviously be happier if this wasn't happening, their kids were at school and they could work.
Your post is based on assumptions, sweeping generalisations and complete and utter unawareness of anyone who isn't in the same situation as you.
If this is even real, sounds like a Daily Mail fishing exercise!

Laurie - I've covered that already. If you can be as productive in less hours then fine.
My role isn't mindless processing but does require me to be actually available, to answer queries from clients and from colleagues. I couldn't do 8hours of work in 5hours. I'm generally more efficient than some others so it helps but it wouldn't allow me to halve my time. If people can do that great. If not then it makes sense for the pay to be affected.
In respect of your junior/senior comparison - I expect your junior employee isn't paid as much as the senior one... so just because the senior one can do loads of 'basic work' in a couple of hours per day doesn't mean they should be paid their full salary based on their senior role if they cannot fulfill it.

I think you are underestimating just how hard it is for everyone right now.

I've had to make the following decisions during lockdown:

1. initially my DS went to school (I'm a key worker). But due to his asthma the head teacher (and I) was concerned and so I kept him at home
2. I then attempted to juggle home schooling and working. After a hellish week I decided I just couldn't do both and therefore homeschooling has been essentially abandoned. We are doing bits and still reading daily, but screens have become an unfortunate temporary reality.
3. After weeks of this unhealthy situation I have made the even more difficult decision to send him back to school for a few days a week so that he can get some time playing with others and I can focus on my work.

On top of that I'm having to work in the evenings and weekends as I've never been busier.

Luckily my colleagues and my two bosses all have children as well and completely understand and emphasise with my situation.

I'm incredibly grateful that I have not been furloughed as redundancy is going to be the sad reality for most of those people.

i expect your junior employee isn't paid as much as the senior one... so just because the senior one can do loads of 'basic work' in a couple of hours per day doesn't mean they should be paid their full salary based on their senior role if they cannot fulfill it.

Interestingly, the senior team have all taken chunky pay cuts (juniors haven’t) so the difference isn’t nearly as wide as it was.

Which goes to show that all the rules of normal operating are in flux at the minute.

On a rational and logical level I know that everyone has their own shit. It’s hard for everyone in different ways etc etc.

However. I am being pushed to the absolute limit in trying to cope with my very demanding job and two small children (5 and 2). My husband and I are both working from home full time. There is literally no down time. 6am to midnight, shifts, working around the kids. My mental health is in ruins and I’ll probably end up quitting my job in the end because frankly I can’t sustain this long-term.

My boss has made me take a few days of annual leave because apparently I am so clearly not coping (and it’s not even helping because all I see is the emails racking up and I’ll need to deal with them tonight anyway). There is no respite.

So on a not-so-rational level OP (and I am going to choose my words very carefully here) I think you need to stop now and go and take a long, hard look in the mirror at how angry and bitter you clearly are. I don’t doubt that it’s hard for you and that it has been hard for you. But to come on a parenting site (“oh oh but MNHQ said I coooould”) and moan and bleat about this issue? When so many parents are struggling like I am? And to spout off about how we should have our wages docked and should get to the back of the queue for promotions? That’s a horrible and deliberate choice and consequently I can’t muster any sort of sympathy or compassion for you. I will refrain from telling you what I think you can do with your “oh I doooo sympathise really” bleating.

I wish I hadn’t read your horrible thread.

LaurieMarlow 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Laurie - well then if they've taken a pay cut its perfectly reasonable for the expectations to be lowered/for them to be able to do less due to childcare etc. It's all about fairness and give and take. Being a parent doesn't give special rights.

Being a parent doesn't give special rights.

It needs to be acknowledged that the support required for them to do their job to normally expected levels (childcare) has been taken away.

"Which goes to show that all the rules of normal operating are in flux at the minute." - I agree. Quite a few in my team are working hours we wouldn't normally allow to help them manage childcare. So doing half days/catching up in the evenings/doing week-end. Everyone needs to be flexible. But what I'm against is a God given right to receive full pay for doing half the work. Those team members are paid based on what they can deliver and that's absolutely right.

Are they actually doing half the work though? I’m keeping insane hours just now but I’m still meeting my targets and doing my hours. For a 20% pay cut (with no corresponding reduction in hours) I might add.

It's quite sobering to see working parents talked about as if they've had trouble replacing the nanny and don't fancy the commute for a few weeks. Rather than the reality - as responsible adults who had 2 or 3 lots of childcare backup which are all now prohibited by the government.

Indeed hammering I think I may need to hide this thread. First time ever.

Seems pretty shitty to limit parents earning potential because ...

They’re not superhumans and can’t do two full time jobs at once.

The government has forcibly closed the childcare supports that parents sourced, paid for, relied on to do their jobs normally.

Like everyone’s been saying, it’s the kids and the working mothers who’ll suffer for this and that is one awful consequence of this shitstorm, that could be avoided, if people were a little more flexible and empathetic.

Rather than the reality - as responsible adults who had 2 or 3 lots of childcare backup which are all now prohibited by the government.

Absolutely this

@SummerHouse thanks for thinking of me & sending me the info. It's not just my DC-my friend's kids normally go to the school that would be my DC's hub school, she's a key worker but DH not & they any attend. Also another friend's DC has an EHCP & he can't attend as she & DH aren't key workers. 🤷🏼‍♀️
I don't know what will happen with post 1st June school but so far this is what has happened in my area.
And not to be ungrateful but not pinning too much hope/importance on June school re-opening as only for a few weeks then off for another 6+weeks. Plus will likely be parttime, not al years etc. So I'm the grand scheme of things won't impact my ability to work, kids education/wellbeing or my mental health that much!
Thanks again though x

Why is it fair that you get to work less and get the same amount of pay? I am not saying it's not hard but why is this situation correct?
I find this attitude astonishing. What is it about a global pandemic that's supposed to be fair?

As LaurieMarlow rightly points out, normal operating rules have been suspended. We've set up our society to function based on childcare being widely available, be that nursery, nannies, childminders, grandparents, or breakfast and after-school clubs wrapped around school hours. When all those options are taken away, not through parental choice but by law and by government advice, we're temporarily changing how we choose to operate our society. Which means, again temporarily, accepting that parents cannot work their full hours right now (at least not without mental and physical breakdowns, or by neglecting their children to the point of causing long-term issues).

My shortfall in productivity affects my colleagues, yes. That I'm on my usual full pay doesn't actually affect them; if my pay gets cut, their workload doesn't miraculously lessen. It just means I can't afford things like paying the bills, or feeding my family. Suggesting parents take a pay cut (and actually, many have, by being forced to take unpaid leave) doesn't solve the problem, it's just spite, borne from this strange idea of levelling the playing field. In case you missed it, the playing field is gone! We're in survival mode. The fact many posters on the site want parents to be penalised – be it financially with a pay cut, or career-wise by preventing our access to promotions or putting us in the firing line for redundancy, or by neglecting our children to their developmental detriment – is not just bizarre but deeply unpleasant. I chose to have a child; I didn't choose to have one in a society that's not operating under its usual rules.

If we all want to get through this – and by get through this I mean not just surviving Covid19 (which most people do, though we have no idea of the long-term health effects on adults or children), but surviving as a society and a civilisation that has:

• women in the workforce
• happy, healthy, fulfilled children
• everyone housed and financially able in the way they were pre-corona

we have to drop the "It's not fair" attitude and this idea of penalising parents (which would have long-term ramifications that would last longer and do more damage than the pandemic itself), and instead look at the government and the employers: why are some employers still expecting full productivity from everyone? Why is the OP's employer having her work 12 hours a day? (I refuse to believe that there aren't some tasks in the majority of jobs that can't just be crossed off the to-do list while we all try to just make it through the days.) Why isn't the government ensuring that, in addition to furlough and their support, no one is to lose their jobs because they're unable to perform them? Why are half the threads on MN angry at parents, as if we actively chose this fucking horrendous situation, instead of angry at China's government for keeping quiet for so long, or our government for titting this up so spectacularly, or at employers who are showing zero flexibility, empathy and understanding?

Great post burritofan

burritofan fab post 👏🏻

@WelcomeToTheNorth I'm with you. Wish I'd never seen this god awful thread.
Feeling really appreciated in my public protection role where I'm working as hard as I can (but in reality not to standard I was when in the office/no kids around) & have had 1 payrise in 10 years.

@burritofan 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
It also always amazes me that on MN you'd be criticised by supposed colleagues for not contributing enough to the team, but if you gave up your job for that reason & went on benefits you would be absolutely crucified for that.
Literally can't do anything right when you have a kid.

Btw it was always legal to use private childcare such as a registered nanny etc (whilst not necessarily financially viable for everyone).

To me it's fair to restrict anyone's earnings' based on what they can do overall.
Presumably parents would be saving on childcare costs so would be able to cope with reduced earnings based on the fact that they need to look after their children... seems generally fair to me!
I agree employers should be flexible in terms of when/how the work should be carried out, absolutely.

It’s indirect sex discrimination, oblada. Does that help?

A lot of parents are still paying their childcare fees because if they don't, their provider will go under and they will have no place to send their child when this all clams down.