Parents wfh and the furloughed for childcare

[baskininjoe]

I am childless, currently by choice because I am in my twenties but do plan to have a child in the future at some point.

AIBU to be getting annoyed with the short end of the stick that the childless are getting right now with everything regarding childcare and lockdown.

I have so many colleges who are currently wfh whilst looking after children. I completely sympathise and understand this is hard but I am really starting to get annoyed with them being less productive, and logging less hours for the same pay (no reduction), whilst the rest of us are expected to pick up the slack, and work more hours to make sure tasks still get completed, whilst not being paid anymore for our extra time and effort. I know there is no perfect solution but it really grates on me that they aren't being paid for what they complete which could therefore compensate the rest of us for the extra we are having to do because they are not fully fulfilling their role.

On top of this with the idea of school provisionally going back in June some of these parents have said they will not be sending their DC to school, despite a place being open and available to them, and therefore expect the rest of us to continue to pick up their slack because they can't work as productively whilst looking after their children.

My housemate (shared house) works in a place where many parents have been furloughed for childcare reasons, despite their being lots of work to do, just because they've asked to be. This means that my housemate has been incredibly stressed as the workload is still high but the team is now smaller, whilst many of their colleges are receiving 80% on the taxpayer, despite their actually being work for them to do, all because they complained to their employer that it was too hard working with children and thus asking to be furloughed. This is especially grating as it is taxpayer money that is being used to pay them, despite their actually being a job they could do and be payed for.

I am not at all against the furlough scheme, another of my housemates work in a restaurant and is also on furlough and this is absolutely the right thing as they can not work, despite wanting to, as their place of work is not allowed to open.

However I think:

1. Some employers and employees are taking the piss by allowing staff to be furloughed/asking to be furloughed despite their actually being a job to do. Which then negatively affects the rest of the teams as the work level remains the same but there are less people to do the work so the remaining people have to work harder with no extra pay.

1. Employers need to be understanding but also firm with parents that although some productively will be affected by having DC at home, a certain level still needs to be consistently met or they are not doing their job properly and that negatively affects the business and the rest of the team.

1. Employers need to be especially understanding and grateful to employees still working, who are picking up the slack for those not being as productive because of DC at home/furloughed for childcare reasons despite their still being work. And actually need to consider financially compensating them for the high level of extra work and overtime and/or promise to look at these people first for upcoming promotions as as they have shown serious dedication to the business.

1. Employers should not be allowing parents to choose not to send DC to school when they can if it continues to affect the parents productivity level.

I understand this is a hard time for everyone, and parents do have it hard with few childcare options for DC, however that is not the problem of their colleagues and they should not be negatively affected by being expected to work far far more for no extra gain. My housemate and I are stressed beyond belief both having to work 10-12 hours every day for what would be a 9-5 office job in order to pick up the slack for colleagues whilst not being paid anymore whilst these colleagues are only completely 4-6 hours a day yet continuing to be paid the same as us. And on top of this are expecting it to continue despite their child being able to go to school soon because they are choosing not to send them.

I kind of agree with you OP but the issue is your employer and your housemate's employer.
Furlough shouldn't be used where there is work to do (I know the guidance is unclear and seems to allow for that but my view is that it shouldn't) and parents shouldn't be allowed to be far less productive than they would normally expected to be. My employer wouldn't allow this. We have 3 kids and both me and DH wfh full time and we're doing our respective jobs to the same level as before. It's not easy but it can be done. There is no reason for parents to work 4-5 hours instead of 8hours per day. Yes a few more breaks here and there which would be usually made up later in the day no issue. But not a massive chunk of the day.
I'm getting tired of repeating it but - there is no requirement to homeschool! If you can great but if u have to work then that takes precedence. Our kids get very little 'homeschooling' because we're busy working...

There is no reason for parents to work 4-5 hours instead of 8hours per day. Yes a few more breaks here and there which would be usually made up later in the day no issue. But not a massive chunk of the day.

How old are you kids, as a matter of interest?

Am I right in thinking, OP, that in your last post you are saying that your decision to wait a few years to have a child (I'm very sorry for your loss, btw) is tied in with you becoming a SAHM, once you have achieved everything you want to at work?

I think that @RestaurantoffBroadway has written a bang on post.

You do sound very angry OP, and you do have a lot going on. But, very kindly, so do a lot of people at the moment.

I don’t know what work you do, but often stuff that is ‘essential’ actually isn’t - talk to your managers about this. Originally you said 10 -12 hour days. 10 is ok (normal ish). 12 every day is a lot (are you working weekends too?) Your example of recording lots of data on hours etc seems like it could be streamlined and produce the same results for instance.

Look at what else can be managed more efficiently. We are in the shielding group and get priority delivery slots. Is this an option for your relatives? Then you won’t need to shop so much. Then you can buy some time for yourself, which is important for everyone.

I also think you should have a look at how you come across. Just saying you have empathy doesn’t make it true. You sound the opposite.

And making generalisations such as ‘the childless have the bad end of the stick’ is never going to go well. At my work people are being understanding to a degree but I still need to get stuff happening (covid related so is essential). This means working non-stop in one form or another from about 7am to midnight, plus every weekend evening and some time in the day. It is what it is at the moment.

I’m sorry about your mc - often people don’t get how awful that can be.

Op you seem to think number of hours worked equals better work. Luckily my employer understands that it's not the number of hours spent at my desk that counts but what I produce. If you think you're hard done by speak to your boss. In fact please do. Be aware they may see things differently to you though.

What @Redwinestillfine said.

I may be putting in a few less hours, but the quality and impact of the work I do still significantly contributes in terms of commercial benefit.

Quality not quantity.

Simply try to put yourself in their shoes, it's just chance that this pandemic has happened while you are childless, what would you do if you had children just now?

I've adjusted my hours so I can put in the same hours as before but still support my children home school, it's in no way ideal but needs must, in my team the childless one is taking up a bit of slack for times in the day when I'm away but he doesn't seem to mind. There have been times in the past when I've done the same for him due to ill health etc.

So parents who have asked to be furloughed because they knew they couldn't do the job properly while looking after kids are bad, also parents who tried to carry on and are, duly, struggling to do the job properly are also bad. OP you are being very self absorbed. It is not unreasonable that you feel frustrated at working more for less- that's shit for you. It is totally unreasonable to blame colleagues with children for that. It's hardly their choice. I promise that taking in to account domestic work and child care they are working vastly, vastly harder than you overall. It's extraordinarily unsupportive of you to suggest they should have their pay cut right now on top of everything. They still have mortgages and children to feed.

@RestaurantoffBroadway Here here!

So what is the alternative? You don't agree with them being furloughed. Yet if they continue to work you believe you're being hard done by. What would you have your employer do - sack them?

These are unprecedented times. Everyone is having to do things for others that they wouldn't normally have to.

And for the record, every parent I know is working doubly hard and putting in extra hours to cover their work, their parenting, their home schooling and everything in between. Including me. And they're all at the end of their tether, tired, exasperated and feeling utterly shit.

Potentially some of the reason people are reacting so angrily OP, is because they are already feeling like shit. I want to do more, to do better, but I can't physically manage it. I'm not allowed to reduce my hours (I have a good, understanding employer, who doesn't want to pay me less). My child is miserable and lonely, I feel like such a shit parent because I'm basically having to neglect him while I work. And it's not felt utterly horrendous because my colleagues and boss are supportive - to think that they could actually feel like you do, that they might be judging me, or feeling put upon to take on some of my work load and then feeling stressed and il because of it - that makes me feel even worse. And there is NOTHING I can do about it. I can't change this situation. I can't give any more to anyone else because I am dangling from my fingertips. And I know it's not getting better any time soon. Every single childcare and back up childcare setting we rely on in the summer holidays is closed. I've got no family who can help, no holiday clubs, this is going to keep on being desperately awful until at least September at the earliest.
And to think there are people out there who think that my long term employment prospects should be based on how I managed during a global pandemic, well what else do you want from me? What do you actually want parents to do? All you say is that you want to be compensated more (and that's understandable) but if a business is suffering then any money made up by cutting wages is just going to get sucked in to that.
Have a read of Pregnant Then Screwed. This is basically that, but on speed. This is going to screw women over, particularly vulnerable women. You claim you've got empathy but you haven't demonstrated any. Saying something and actually doing it are not the same.

I second those who think that this will massively throw women in the workplace back a couple of decades. My hard working friends are dropping out of their fantastic careers like flies at the moment, even those with partners at home, never mind single parents.

I forgot to add that it’s highly likely OPs managers also have kids so good luck trying to complain to them about the hours the parents are doing in the hope they’ll be made redundant or not promoted.

I’m a manager and if anyone came to me with that shit, I wouldn’t be thinking highly of them.

This is hopefully a short term situation. Like hell would I be looking to get rid of any long term high performing employees because this temporarily shit situation means they can’t give 100% for 3 months.

oblada I’d be interested to know how old your children are, if they are suffering from any mental distress at the moment, if they are usually “doing ok” at school and if they have any special educational needs.

My Young primary age child was already a year behind, has SEN and is extremely anxious about the current situation.

I’m balancing work with childcare but have taken the opposite position to you, that my child takes precedence, not work.

LaurieMarlow - 3, 6 and 8. So not teenagers. It's hard work but we make it work.

The only difference for me and my work is that before the pandemic I used to work quite a bit of extra hours (unpaid, my choice entirely) whereas now I stick to fulfilling my contractual obligations. I may be slightly less productive (I don't actually think so but not impossible) but I would definitely feel like I'd be taking the piss if I was doing half my work for the same pay.
In my work parents who cannot work roughly same due to childcare are being given alternative such as doing some work at the week-end etc and paid accordingly.

So parents who have asked to be furloughed because they knew they couldn't do the job properly while looking after kids are bad, also parents who tried to carry on and are, duly, struggling to do the job properly are also bad.

This

OP, what do you actually want from parents?

You’re just lashing out. That’s not fair, parents are having a tough time as it is.

Everything about your own situation needs to be taken up with you boss. You know this. My guess is that you’re too intimidated to have that conversation.

Everything - your child can take precedence generally. My children do too overall in my life. But if I'm choosing to continue to work full time then surely during that time my work must be done and a balance appropriately struck. I can't ask my employer to pay me in full and focus on my child half of the day. If I couldn't cope (I'm also 7months pregnant so I'll admit to being pretty knackered) then I'd take some annual leave/unpaid leave etc.

It's hard work but we make it work.

Well most people are doing the very best they can.

Not everyone is in the same position though. My friend has an 18 month old that won’t be put down (screams til she’s sick). Her DH is a HCP so very limited in what he can do.

She’s doing an hour before DH leaves for work, an hour during naptime and 3 hours in the evening. Baby isn’t a great sleeper. I’m not sure what else she can do tbh.

As it happens though, she’s an absolute genius at her job, so her employer happy with what she’s delivering in that time. Thankfully.

That's great for your friend. But I don't see anything wrong with people being paid based on what they can actually deliver. If they can deliver a full day's work in 4-5hrs fine (in some jobs it's possible in others it is not - in mine it wouldn't be possible as my role involves being present/available to support others). But if they cannot then I see no reason for them not to be paid for the hours they do. Which is what the OP suggests. Not to sack them off. Simply to take into account that they cannot deliver in full at the moment.

But if they cannot then I see no reason for them not to be paid for the hours they do

Narrowing down the conversation to purely hours is very limited though. Unless you’re literally data processing or something.

Some people are just much more productive, skilled, useful with their time than others. Experience matters. A junior in my team could faff for days with something that a senior person could nail in 30 mins.

And all this has nothing to do with the current situation, it’s just that we’re now in a situation where ‘hours’ have become much more of a focus.

When it’s being used as a stick to beat parents with (who have been making significant sacrifices during this crisis) it really rankles.

I do think it's excessive for your employer to expect you to work 60 hours per week.

oblada you’ve just said your work takes precedence over your children (aged 3, 6 and 8) and that you are working your 8 (was it?) straight hours per day full time.

I would suggest your children may pay the price for this.

That is your choice.

You seemed to be criticising parents who make a different choice to you.

I do agree with you though that whilst some leeway has been given as people adjust to an extremely turbulent time, ultimately people should be paid for the hours they do.

If my employer decided to change the contractual terms of my employment from full to part time without my agreement, I would be submitting a complaint for financial losses due to breach of contract and one for indirect sex discrimination.