Parents wfh and the furloughed for childcare

[baskininjoe]

I am childless, currently by choice because I am in my twenties but do plan to have a child in the future at some point.

AIBU to be getting annoyed with the short end of the stick that the childless are getting right now with everything regarding childcare and lockdown.

I have so many colleges who are currently wfh whilst looking after children. I completely sympathise and understand this is hard but I am really starting to get annoyed with them being less productive, and logging less hours for the same pay (no reduction), whilst the rest of us are expected to pick up the slack, and work more hours to make sure tasks still get completed, whilst not being paid anymore for our extra time and effort. I know there is no perfect solution but it really grates on me that they aren't being paid for what they complete which could therefore compensate the rest of us for the extra we are having to do because they are not fully fulfilling their role.

On top of this with the idea of school provisionally going back in June some of these parents have said they will not be sending their DC to school, despite a place being open and available to them, and therefore expect the rest of us to continue to pick up their slack because they can't work as productively whilst looking after their children.

My housemate (shared house) works in a place where many parents have been furloughed for childcare reasons, despite their being lots of work to do, just because they've asked to be. This means that my housemate has been incredibly stressed as the workload is still high but the team is now smaller, whilst many of their colleges are receiving 80% on the taxpayer, despite their actually being work for them to do, all because they complained to their employer that it was too hard working with children and thus asking to be furloughed. This is especially grating as it is taxpayer money that is being used to pay them, despite their actually being a job they could do and be payed for.

I am not at all against the furlough scheme, another of my housemates work in a restaurant and is also on furlough and this is absolutely the right thing as they can not work, despite wanting to, as their place of work is not allowed to open.

However I think:

1. Some employers and employees are taking the piss by allowing staff to be furloughed/asking to be furloughed despite their actually being a job to do. Which then negatively affects the rest of the teams as the work level remains the same but there are less people to do the work so the remaining people have to work harder with no extra pay.

1. Employers need to be understanding but also firm with parents that although some productively will be affected by having DC at home, a certain level still needs to be consistently met or they are not doing their job properly and that negatively affects the business and the rest of the team.

1. Employers need to be especially understanding and grateful to employees still working, who are picking up the slack for those not being as productive because of DC at home/furloughed for childcare reasons despite their still being work. And actually need to consider financially compensating them for the high level of extra work and overtime and/or promise to look at these people first for upcoming promotions as as they have shown serious dedication to the business.

1. Employers should not be allowing parents to choose not to send DC to school when they can if it continues to affect the parents productivity level.

I understand this is a hard time for everyone, and parents do have it hard with few childcare options for DC, however that is not the problem of their colleagues and they should not be negatively affected by being expected to work far far more for no extra gain. My housemate and I are stressed beyond belief both having to work 10-12 hours every day for what would be a 9-5 office job in order to pick up the slack for colleagues whilst not being paid anymore whilst these colleagues are only completely 4-6 hours a day yet continuing to be paid the same as us. And on top of this are expecting it to continue despite their child being able to go to school soon because they are choosing not to send them.

@RedToothBrush Great post.

@RedToothBrush Good points.

I won't even say anything, but when/if you have kids you will look back at this thread and cringe your guts out.

Your point 1 and 2 contradict each other.
Employees are taking the piss by asking to be furloughed when there is a job to do, BUT Employers must also be firm with parents who aren't maintaining a set level of productivity.
What what the hell are parents supposed to do if they can't maintain these levels?

3: I actually think employers should always be grateful to all staff who are doing whatever they can during difficult times. a parent who can only put in 5 hours might be showing more commitment than a child-free person who is putting in 8 hours. I don't think promises of priority for promotions is appropriate at all.

4: Employers should have no part in this decision. The school opening in June is so minimal that it could actually prove harder for some parents to send their child in than keeping them at home. Only 3 years going in and only part-time. if you have children in different years then it might not help at all.

I do have some sympathy for you but you are aiming your frustrations in the wrong direction. Your employer shouldn't be piling more work on you. The parents are having a much harder time than you are so ultimately I have far more sympathy for them.

You are stressed - so are they - so is everyone.

No one has chosen the current situation we find ourselves in. Rather than feeling sorry for yourself find a way to cope.

If you are paid for 9-5 clock on at 9 and off at 5. Don't pick up the extra work if you don't want to. No one can make you.

And I have to agree you will cringe at your original post when you grow up a bit.

@baskininjoe

I think you’re getting a tough time on this thread. Yes, there are some parents trying their absolute best in an awful situation but there are definitely more than a few who are taking the piss and expecting others to pick up the slack just because they have children (could name a few from my own social circle ) Children are a choice and that choice should not negatively impact others. (I have two DC BTW)

There are about three hundred employees in Ventura and a hundred children in the child development center. We charge the parents rates that are lower to comparable child care centers, because we fund it with another six hundred thousand dollars in subsidies. What appears to be a financial burden is in fact a profit center. Seventy-one percent of our employees are women, and many occupt high-level management positions. Studies have shown that it costs a company an average of fifty thousand dollars to replace an employee - from recruiting costs, training and loss of productivity. Our child care center helps us retain our skilled moms."

Let My People Go Surfing - Yvon Chouinard 2005.

He talks about how you have to have happy employees for productivity and parents who are worried about children are not happy, so you do everything you can to mitigate that because it pays off for you financially in the end. And just how important providing childcare is to that. They therefore run their own childcare provision because they understand the importance of this and the importance of retaining staff in the long run.

Its a breathe of freshair against the stale, backward and oldfashioned notion of clocking in and out like robots.

And whilst even the visionaries like Chouinard might not be able to run their childcare under the circumstances, it doesn't go amiss to understand these concepts rather than pitching for a race to the bottom and the dehumanisation of staff in reducing them to merely whether they've worked the set number of hours required of them without considering the context of an underperformance and their long term productivity outside the limits of the crisis.

I'm sorry you are finding it tough right now. But a bad attitude to others won't improve your mood nor will it improve productivity of other employees either.

@voiceofreason

I was trying to say employers must be firm that

a) if a certain level of productivity is not maintained there may be a temporary salary cut to reflect this

b) once there are childcare provisions if productivity does not go up because parents CHOOSE not to send their kids to childcare (not those that aren't able to, that's a different situation) employers need to be firm that this is the individual employees choice and thus the employee face the same disciplinary action than any other would for performing below par.

Sorry, does that explain it better? I've never been good at articulating my thoughts onto paper (hence why I work mostly with data)

Sorry, does that explain it better? I've never been good at articulating my thoughts onto paper (hence why I work mostly with data)

No.

Cos how does

if a certain level of productivity is not maintained there may be a temporary salary cut to reflect this

Improve a) the productivity of already stressed out parents b) improve the mental health culture of a business which you work in and say yourself you are struggling with your own challenges to your mental health because of the work culture?

Think about it.

You aren't helping yourself on this one.

Should we just put our children in cages during the day?
Or drug them to keep them quiet?
Or just ignore them?

What do you propose we do, when working/caring for our children from morning to night, to ensure that you have adequate time for yoga?

Seriously.

And I'm sorry you have a lot of family stress right now and are worried about their health. So do many of us that have children, we just have them to care for on top of everything else.

People with young kids tend to be of the age where they also have parents who are aging.

if a certain level of productivity is not maintained there may be a temporary salary cut to reflect this

Who defines that level of productivity?

What if it just isn’t achievable without actual child neglect?

Who provides if parents can’t cover their bills because of your measures?

if productivity does not go up because parents CHOOSE not to send their kids to childcare (not those that aren't able to, that's a different situation) employers need to be firm that this is the individual employees choice

We don’t actually know a lot about this virus and who it affects badly. Who gets to decide who’s genuinely ‘not able’ to send their kids in?

My day begins at 7am; I work for 2 hours, then from 9:00-12:00 I homeschool whilst keeping an eye on emails/answering any queries from my team. 12:00 lunchtime. 13:00-16:00 I work whilst trying keep an eye on my kids. 16:00 we go out for a walk then I do dinner, bath, bedtime. 20:00 I log back on and usually work until midnight. My childless colleagues are wfh 08:00 -16:00. I'd say in my case, they are getting the better deal and whilst I love my kids, it's bloody hard work!! Oh and I've also been working for a couple of hours on weekends too!

Should we just put our children in cages during the day?
Or drug them to keep them quiet?
Or just ignore them?

Yes OP, what do actually propose? We can’t just magic them away you know.

hence why I work mostly with data

No you work with humans. Not just data.

You know people with feelings. Like you.

@baskininjoe Why are parents choosing not to send their children back in your opinion?

No decent parent wants their child missing out on their education or not seeing their friends for months on end. It's not a simple decision taken lightly.

DH has two junior members of staff he's working with on a daily basis. They both have two young children, and even though both have partners they are getting interrupted reguarly because they are too young to understand that Daddy isn't to be disturbed during certain hours.

He understands that he will get more productivity from them if he looks after their mental health and says 'its fine don't worry, spend time with your family and don't stress about them interrupting' not from saying 'oi this is work time, stop slacking, get your wife to look after them properly otherwise you will be docked time'.

Are you saying they both have wives that are SAHMs? Because if so then there's no real comparison between the amount of 'understanding' your DH is doing and the boss of someone who is actually trying to juggle childcare with work, and tbh I find you comparing that situation to the situation of two working parents or a lone working parent more annoying than anything OP has said!

You're being unreasonable. This is a crisis situation. We all need to play our part. Yours is to be understanding and not make an already difficult situation more stressful.

@kateybeth79

My day begins at 7:00 too, I get up, ready and am sat at my desk to begin work by 7:30. I break for as quick a lunch as possible around 1 and am always back at my desk by 1:20. I then continue to work until approximately 8. Sometimes longer. I then also have to fit in calling my parents, shopping for 3 households, cleaning up after 2 absolute pigs I live with. Cooking for my and my grandparents and they are now too much of a risk cooking for themselves so I make meals for them to heat up. Dropping off said meals and shopping at multiple households, noting any further requests for my time when I make the drop offs, anything else they want/need. I don't remember the last time I just got to go for a walk without a task to do with it. And I don't get to spend any time with any people i love, yet I'm still exhausted by everything.

@baskininjoe so having a child and then a pandemic is an “action” now?? Could I please hear your suggestions on how I can work as hard as you while I’m looking after a toddler? A toddler who is usually looked after by people who are payed to take on such hard work?

You can expect that some parents may be working shorter hours

However, it's unfair if you have to work more than your usual hours, unless you are paid overtime

"Several won't come in as their WFH DP's aren't used to looking after the children all day, so they need to help them"

and that is bloody ridiculous learned helplessness, which would not be tolerated if it were paid work

I read this thread with a smile on my face as what you describe applies to me as well but I've got two children being looked after by my husband 3 days a week whilst I get into work 7am and leave at 5:30. I wfh 2 days to help out with the kids and log on my laptop after they go to bed. I'm salaried so only get paid for 40 hrs regardless of how many hours I do. The childfree people at my workplace work from home as we are a critical site so have been social distancing since feb.
Also DH works in IT managing a sub team and has been working a lot as some people aren't pulling their weights and these are childfree people.
Point I'm trying to make is there will always be people not pulling their weights childfree or not. It should be down to management to sort out tasks and priorities and ensure that they're being fair to everyone.
I've had to take time off as the pressure is so intense and I'm taking more time off in June as I'm knackered. Do talk to your line manager as it is not good for your health. My husband said I'm talking a lot about audits and change controls and writing stuff in my sleep so not good. I'm trying to have clear boundaries between work and home and this weekend didn't log on to my laptop.. well until 10pm. Be kind to yourself, it is a tough time.xx

Are you saying they both have wives that are SAHMs? Because if so then there's no real comparison between the amount of 'understanding' your DH is doing and the boss of someone who is actually trying to juggle childcare with work, and tbh I find you comparing that situation to the situation of two working parents or a lone working parent more annoying than anything OP has said!

No they are working from home too. In fact one of them works for the same company as DH does but isn't in his team. They take it in turns to work and keep an eye on the kids but try and keep them off work calls when the other is on one as much as possible.

Is that acceptable to you?

Not only that, DHs boss and owner of the company has had his 5 year old lad interrupt an all company meeting during lockdown too. More than once. Which has helped relieve stress by demonstrating from the very top that this issue affects everyone and everyone has to have a certain amount of tolerance and sympathy for it.

It's also nice to see its not just the women who are being pestered by 3, 4 and 5 year olds whilst trying to work.

I agree with you too. Me and dh are both working from home and doing our full hours whilst also look after our 28 month old between us. We split the day and also do work before he wakes and when he is in bed. We feel personal pride in our work and have managed it. We both have colleagues who are in a similar boat to us not doing near their hours and wont work in the evening or weekend to catch up. I also have a colleague who has stated she cant do all her hours despite dh working from home as her dh isnt used to having their dd by himself.

You are making a choice to work those extended hours, in a way that is clearly not sustainable. You sound exhausted. We are all exhausted. We're all doing the best we can.
Your colleagues are not forcing you to pick up the work, you feel obliged to because of who you are and probably where you work. If your business can't survive without people killing themselves working in to the ground, then your employer needs to fix it.
Reducing people's pay because they aren't being as productive is not going to change your situation. People will end up going off sick because of the pressure. Or if they take a pay cut, the work will still need to be done, and you will still be in the same situation.

This isn't the fault of working parents.

To be honest if I was your employer I'd never consider you for a leadership post. Your inability to step into someone else's shoes and empathise rather than judge from your own perspective would tell me you would struggle to manage others. Influencing requires a well developed theory of mind - I'd be worried if you were in my team.