To ask what employers will think when people refuse to send their kids back to school?

[ArgumentativeAardvaark]

Quite a lot of people on MN are business owners or senior managers. The general mood seems to be shifting towards parents deciding not to send their kids back to school when they re-open.

Many employers have, rightly, been happy to make allowances for employees working at less than full ability/hours while they have had children at home needing care. Do you think that tolerance is likely to change if an employee has school or nursery available but chooses not to use it?

Employers are not charities. They are businesses. If the business doesn't make a profit they close down. Some larger businesses have deeper pockets and can fund losses for a period of time to cover situations such as we find ourselves in. Others can't. Small businesses definitely can't.

The stark reality is if your employer says you have to go into work, and your working environment is not obviously unsafe, then you may be fired if you refuse. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

This crisis really shows people's true colours.

This crisis is also showing that a lot of people don't understand that businesses don't have endless cash flows. A huge number of businesses are running out of cash, and so letting people work part time hours for a full time salary is simply not possible.

IfNotNowThenWhenever

Yes, that's what they have said. They have also said "we will use antibacterial hand gel on all children. Some children have had reactions to this in the past" but haven't said they will use an alternate, or that parents provide an alternate.

So basically, if your kid can't use the gel, they cannot come to school.

Why do people all mention school is not childcare as many of us do take jobs around school hours that's a fact and or judge what we can afford to work on having to pay someone out of school hours etc
So it may not be childcare per se but we mostly take it into account when working . I know I had a job around school hours when mine were young and it was a pain if school closed unexpectedly for snow / strikes etc luckily I had bosses who also knew I had school age children so we were able to work around it
No one would of predicted this happening so it's not strange that parents are finding themselves in a predicament now with schools shut , trying to juggle work etc

struggling the legislation talks about exemptions for childcare. I don’t know how to link but it is in there. Like all laws there is exemptions and childcare is one of them.

The extracts in the media are only a tiny tiny part of the legislation.

Sorry but this is naive. You don’t sound like you have any idea how tough the business environment is. You might call it “getting people back whatever the cost”, many businesses would call it doing their utmost to survive in a hostile economy so that their employees have jobs to go back to

Amen. If I employ someone to pick goods from a warehouse, package them up and do the paperwork, that can't be done from home. If staff employed to do that job refuse to come in, then someone else has to do it. We aren't about to pay two lots of salary for one job, so either the willing employees pick up the slack (can cause huge resentment), the employee works part time or they take unpaid leave so that we can employ someone else.

Also from a businesses point of view they have to consider all staff not just the few working parents so if for example a job can't be done at home and the business as a whole is struggling without employees in and causing more stress on others who are in then the business will have to take them into account as well and or if profits are down letting maybe 2 or 3 members of staff go rather than the business go bust and all being jobless will be preferable

@Nicknacky thanks I will try and look makes you wonder if they don't really want this highlighted as I'm sure for many would be preferable option

struggling Absolutely. I apologise for being unable to link but it is in there. Let’s put it this way, my police colleagues do it!

Surely if workers (for whatever reason) can’t come into work or can’t work their hours it’s unpaid leave or reduced hours/pay? My work are being flexible and everyone is working from home, people can choose to reduce hours to fit in with childcare at the moment me if they want. Fair on everyone then!

I’m an NHS manager, if people choose not to send their children to school (rather than can’t for medical reasons) then any leave that would need to be taken will be unpaid.

So they would be given leave - ie they wouldn’t just be discliplined / fired for not turning up to work.

I am barely afloat now, thanks to lockdown, and once I can re-open, I will not be able to afford to employ people who could send their children to school but choose not to. I will be sending my own children back the second the schools are allowed to open.

nicknacky and struggling

Do you mean dependency leave, where you’re allowed time off for childcare arrangements?

If so I’m not sure that would apply here.

I won’t be sending mine back. However I am lucky that I can continue working from home for the foreseeable. I appreciate not everyone has that luxury and feel for people who are having to make very difficult choices.

NewarkShark I haven’t mentioned leave at all?

I think a lot of companies will be looking to restructure at the end of June , if they haven't already !. In reality that means cutting cost out of the payroll. If you are refusing to go back to work , in line with your contract of employment , then you are making the selection criteria easier for them. Of course this isn't universal. Some employers will be happy to accommodate in anyway they can , especially if they want to retain you as an employee , but if the schools don't go back until September then any employer who can do without you after 6 months is going to review your value to bottom line. It can also create problems with staff who are being asked to cover for you. They are having to carry extra work load but you expect to just walk in after 6 months and carry on as before ?. Things will change post corona , levels of employment in line with a resession being one. But that's just my take on it.

@Growingboys doesn’t that speak volumes to you?!

I think a lot of employers are going to have their businesses go bankrupt or will have to make redundancies. Its not about being 'kind' if there is no money then how can they pay people?

I have been asked to come to work next week onwards, there is tolerance towards me having children but it isnt endless. Schools refusing to open could cause parents to lose income/jobs. I'm more fearful of that than coronovirus.

I’ve asked this at my work already and they’ve said we can continue to wfh in order to work flexibly around at home childcare

Of course there will be some employers who will recognise that business levels will take a while to readjust so will be happy to offer unpaid leave while retaining you as an employer.

Employee

nicknacky

That’s why I asked if it was what you meant - you just said “exemptions does childcare” and I wasn’t sure what you meant. Was going to try to be helpful and link.

*for childcare

As we start to go back to recruiting I would think many employers will from now on be back to avoiding ( keeping it legal) women of childbearing age/parents/disabled/and older people

Back to square one!

As for furlough. That won’t remain ongoing, there must be a point where it drops to a point where employees can’t afford to remain on it.

I don’t know anyone who’s not sending their DC back (where applicable). Possibly something to do with the fact we’re paying £4K fees per term per child after the remote learning discount.