To think it’s about time @MNHQ stepped up and did something about the teacher bashing.

[SachaStark]

This evening has been AWFUL here on the AIBU board.

@MNHQ, at what point do you actually plan to intervene and do something about the sheer number of teacher bashing threads, and individual posts? Should we expect any kind of moderation?

Or, is this in fact, “all in the spirit of Mumsnet”? Because at the moment, you’re making it look a darn sight like you agree by proxy.

Oh come on, teachers are NOT working or if they are, it's a greatly reduced work load.

I am working from home from 8:30 til after 5 every work day.

I am checking in with home learning responses and parent emails every weekend and before and after the week day times above.

I worked every day throughout the Easter holidays and over bank holiday, and will do the same over May half term.

I am clinically vunerable (not shielding) so I am not on rota.

You may know a teacher or two who isn't working but - as is being saint millions of times daily - that doesn't mean no one is.

All of our teachers are working at least their normal hours, albeit they may be doing different hours to normal as, like many other parents right now, they too are balancing wfh/in work with none learning.

I'm actually a HLTA where I am although I'm also a qualified teacher. I get paid from 8:30 to 3:30 minus 45 minutes unpaid per day, and for 39 weeks a year.i am not just working full time, I am working massively over my hours all unpaid as it is.

But hey - furlough is instead. I'll get 80% of my wage and get to do nothing instead and your children will definitely not get any home learning provision then, and KW children will have to stay home too.

I do agree that we all seem to have a view more so than for example having interaction with a police officer!

That is because the vast majority of us have been to school and additionally because we are parents have very up date experiences of what is happening.

We work ourselves and know what GOOD looks like. However some teachers and schools arent good, they are seemingly doing the minimum and hiding behind their unions who are known for their ‘cannot do’ attitude.

We need to question this strongly. My SIL and BIL have been furloughed, they are frightened that at least one of them will be made redundant. I suggest that the vast majority of the teachers have no such fear. It’s the luck of the draw when something like this happens. Teachers are very safe job wise. The person who has decided to leave the profession because of the comments needs to get a grip. What are they planning to do? We are about to go into a deep recession!!

Teachers are still working, just not the way they have traditionally.
Typically in a week, teachers will be:
Sourcing and posting work online.
Be online to communicate with the children
Calling families of all children about once a week
Supporting vulnerable families in the community
Working in school with key worker children and those with EHCPs
Participating in team meetings
Marking work that’s been set online
Some are also live teaching or posting lessons on YouTube to be viewed.
Teachers are also being encouraged to continue CPD online.

This is all with the backdrop of their own family lives, whatever that dynamic is.

I’m not claiming teaching is the only profession that’s had to adapt quickly. Nor am I claiming martyrdom. However, the narrative of teachers not working is just not true.

It's not just teachers who are concerned about schools opening again. So are some parents. I'm concerned about it. This is because my DH has asthma. I've been very unwell with COVID-19 symptoms for some weeks and I've been very careful to self-isolate from him. It would be horrible if after all that effort he were to catch it at home time in the playground.

My DD2 (8) has had COVID-19 symptoms (for only 4 days!), but DD1 (11), who would be the one going back in June, hasn't. She may have had it without symptoms, so the antibody test would be helpful, but I don't think it's likely to happen they quickly.

So I have questions about the safety of teachers, parents and children. There are questions that need to be asked and the fact that teaching unions have concerns isn't something they should be pilloried for. Because they're not necessarily concerned about themselves, but vulnerable family members, or vulnerable parents and children that they know about.

I think the debate has become too polarised and it's made a sensible discussion impossible, which is very sad. Also, feelings are running high, because parents are under pressure to return to work and a lot of them can't do it if they have their DC at home. Our DC are struggling, too, with not being able to see their friends and we're also painfully aware that we're not able to educate them properly ourselves. That's certainly where I'm at; I haven't been well enough to teach them and my DH has a demanding job, which he's been doing from home.

But these issues are being lost, and we really need to take a step back from it. There have always been teacher bashing threads, which you would expect on a parents' forum, but it has got out of hand during lockdown. I don't think we should expect MNHQ to step in, because no one will agree on where the line should be drawn. They already step in when debates become too heated and descend into personal attacks, quite rightly.

I do think people are inclined to conflate “teachers” and “the education system”. Teachers have very very little control over what they are allowed to do in normal circumstances and even less so at the moment, things are decided centrally. Furthermore the unions, which many people view as the Marxist enemy, are in fact the only way that teachers can impact upon policy, and thereby have control over what they do.

FWIW I think it’s the inconsistency in different provision that’s really caused a problem, I’ve been working probably the same hours at home than I did when in school, but someone else may not be, not because they can’t be arsed but because their leadership and school setting are different to mine. (Isn’t it a making how so many MN posters have a sister who is a teacher who does no work at the weekend and now is doing next to nothing though?)

@MNHQ - that’s fine, I understand that this is a parenting site (I am a parent and a teacher). I agree that parents are entitled to discuss schools, teaching, teachers etc. as long as they don’t break guidelines. But please, as some requested above, could The Staffroom be hidden from Active threads? Just so that we have a place to decompress? I know people still have the right to seek it out but it will be less likely.

As the Childrens Commissioner says to the goverment and the unions. Stop squabbling and get a Can Do attitude.

100% of MN users have experience of GPs, shops workers, dentists and other occupations

That's true but I don't think it's quite the same. You may see your GP what, once every 6 months maybe on average? I don't know but certainly not often unless there are other issues at play. Same for dentists.

Shop workers? What impact do they really have on your life that would make them a focus for discussion? Perhaps if you have a negative experience with one when you did your weekly food shop you may post a Mumsnet thread about it but usually you don't deal with shop workers on a daily basis and they aren't responsible for the education of the most important thing in your life.

Teachers and education is obviously a huge part of children's lives, it's not surprising therefore that the parents of those children are going to talk and discuss, and often have negative opinions on (whether that opinion is right or wrong is another question), a subject which is so important to the upbringing of their children and daily lives.

Some teachers are washing their hands of seemingly not doing anything and asking anyone with an issue to go to the SLT

If a teacher isn’t working, the only person who can resolve that is the Head or their line manager. Mumsneters need to realise that we can’t explain why any particular school or teacher isn’t doing things quite as well as others. We can guess, however that what is enough for some is not enough for others and too much for the rest. We can’t win.

My SIL wrote to the school and was told that this was all they could do due to sickness and teachers having to look after their own families

A small school may genuinely have a sickness problem (or a big one for that matter). Staff may be struggling with sickness in their family members. They may have lost someone or be struggling with their mental health. A head teacher is unable to say ‘well, Mrs Smith lost her husband last week, Mrs Jones has triplets aged 2 and her husband just walked out, Mrs Peters has an autistic child and is caught up managing him at the moment and Mr Jones is shielding his 86 year old mum with cancer and diabetes’, We don’t exist in isolation - we have wider family to support, just as you do. One of the major issues of under investment in schools in recent years is that older staff have been pushed out. An inevitable consequence of that is a younger staff team - so younger families. We all know the struggle of working with an 18 month old and a 3 year old. You can’t do live lessons like that any more than you can take a conference call.

Howaboutanewname

Well said @nellodee*.
Am also a shortage area teacher. I am aware of 3 resignations, a 4th if you include my own. The shit on this site in the last few weeks is the straw that broke my back. I am aware of how few people understand the job and can manage that but the wilful ignorance clearly demonstrated here is beyond my comprehension. I am so sorry for my colleagues who have to continue beyond July.*

I think what reading all the bile also does is makes you realise the underfunding, the loss of TAs, the lack of support for children with MH issues, the lack of support with unmanageable behaviour etc is never going to end.

It makes you realise how effectively much of the public has been manipulated into directing all of the blame and anger at teachers rather than the actual causes of the degradation of UK education. Therefore they’re not going to vote or campaign with us to improve schools, therefore nothing is going to change.

In fact things will get worse because any ta or teacher who was on their last legs and can afford to is handing in their notice or taking early retirement. Ergo more impossible situations for those remaining, even more degradation of education and more abuse of teachers.

This:
"My DS school is private and there would be uproar if no work was done by teachers bar a few links and a couple of worksheets. However my nieces have exactly that. My SIL wrote to the school and was told that this was all they could do due to sickness and teachers having to look after their own families."

Indeed, I had a similar response to one of my children's schools - off sick, looking after their families! Aren't we all. Yet the private school teachers are able to provide teaching. What's the difference? The private school parents would demand a refund if their children were provided with a weekly email of suggested tv programmes and websites to look at. The state school parent's can only moan and vent their frustrations on MN's.

As I have said previously, one of my children's schools is good and the other is poor at providing home learning. My friend's children's private school is amazing - I cannot afford the fees though. I just wish the poor school provided more or were made to provide more.... and to the ones who say tell them - I have. I have asked for more resources and get the we have people off sick, others are looking after their own families (but they are being paid!) and the 'don't worry we will catch up in September'.... annoying when other local state schools can provide it.

I have experience of both good and bad. If a parent only has experience of bad then of course they will moan and rightly so.

I think especially at the moment and especially on a parenting forum, it's just not surprising at all that the main topic of debate is education.

Teachers are as susceptible to criticism as much anyone else, some are amazing and some are shit. Where you cross the line however is having a go at all teachers for something which is completely outwith their control i.e. Government policy, council policy, overall school policy, an actual pandemic etc.

Criticising a teacher for not doing their job, doing it badly or dismissing the concerns of calm rational parents is perfectly ok. Discussing options or potential ways to mitigate the effects the pandemic is having is ok. Countering or reality-checking the suggestions is ok.

Teachers are also well within their rights to complain about abusive, detached from reality parents and their kids attitudes. Critiquing the (sometimes) ludicrous suggestions bandied about and unrealistic expectations is ok.

Report those who are being abusive or expecting insane things whilst blaming an entire profession for higher up decision-making and a pandemic.

No-one should be immune from criticism but direct the froth at the right people not the ones on the ground in cases where it is unjustified. Root cause analysis skills could benefit a lot of people...

I’m a social worker and have been on Mumsnet for a while. I remember a period where there was constant social worker bashing.

People are allowed to have an opinion providing it doesn’t breach the guidelines.

It will pass

My above post is where I think mumsnet needs to step in where posters are flagrantly stirring up hate. Making our schools struggle even more with shortages and low moral will not make any parents lives easier and will make life harder for all of our children.

Does mnhq acknowledge there’s a social responsibility here?

As a teacher I would just like to take a moment to thank all the teachers and parents out there who have fought our corner on numerous threads recently.

Not that this should have to be done in a global pandemic.

I can say it's so demoralising for the teachers seeing these threads who are trying their best at this time. Putting other people's kids before their own.

Bathroom12345

The NHS and BMA says other wise.

Yes I agree, people shouldn't be blaming individuals for things outside of their control.

People were doing it about police officers in that other thread I mentioned, failing to understand that individual PCs don't make up the laws they are complaining about.

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

At what point was calling people, lazy, workshy etc. "Discussing fears"?

I'm more than happy to return to normal school with a can do attitude if it is true my safe enough to do so, and that I am not at further risk when I return - I'm clinically vulnerable but not shielded.

But right now we are trying to see if schools CAN DO the reopening whilst still following the guidelines. And those guidelines keep changing - our head teacher has had three versions sent to her via the DfE this week and more due this weekend. They contradict one another and make changes each time meaning that the planning started the day before May well be out of date the next day.

At present parents in the briefing were told that children in reception and year 1 will probably return on June 1.

The guidelines say something slightly different. There is an allowance for smaller schools and infants to prioritise is school isn't big enough. Well, the parents at our infant school are going to be confused as to why we can't have year 1 back probably.
One set of guidelines suggested rotas were fine and part time, another now sets it must be full time.
Some say half classes with one constant staff member and not to mix - but we don't have the spare capacity in our school to offer that unless we only have the one year group back.
The guidelines didn't even mention key worker children initially.
Some guidelines say that clinically vunerable staff shouldn't be in, others appear to contradict that.
Some guidelines say that home learning must be provided for the year groups and children not in , other guidelines say just post links to oak academy and bbc provision.

And so it goes on.

There are constant comparisons with Denmark all over MN and also the media - they are back fine and all is well - but will no one actually reporting realities there.

IF what is happening in Denmark was proposed here (it isn't by the way) with the same numbers of pupils, ages, class and space capacity, etc then most teaching staff would be happy to return on Monday.

So I will go back to school with my Can Do attitude regardless of what happens, but I'm allowed to spend this planning period before then trying to work out how on earth we navigate this often changing guidelines in our specific school whilst still keeping myself safe.
^*
And I still think it's madness that in the same week the government will think in safe to be back in school, in small classrooms, alongside over 180 children plus staff for several hours a day that I'm considered bit safe enough to go my nana's funeral alongside my mum and dad.*^

@StellaDelMare you deserve a 🏅, honestly in the face of adversity you've bloody pulled it out of the hat to get children some education.

Mine are over school age now, so I've not had to deal with the homeschooling, but it must be damn tough for you and the parents.

Anyone I know with small children is saying you're fabulous, if that's any consolation.

This is mumsnet.

It’s hardly surprising that mums come on here and talk about what’s currently bothering them. It’s pretty arrogant of any one profession to expect MNHQ to exercise censorship. This isn’t North Korea.

I think they’ve done a reasonably good job of removing personal insults or threads that got out of hand, which is quite right.

It’s mumsnet, a lot of mums are bothered about their kids experience of lockdown, part of that is being disappointed with schools. Yet from what I’ve seen, when this is raised, there’s a huge outcry from the teachers that this can’t be true, of the parent mustn’t have tried hard enough, or their parenting skills are lacking.

The parent bashing, guilting and shaming from certain teachers on these boards has been astonishing, especially given this is a parenting website, it’s not the TES.

Bathroom12345

What do you think about the medical unions stating that they don't believe it is yet safe enough for young children to return to school under the Government's current proposals?

My DH is a hospital consultant, member of the BMA. Several of our friends similarly.

None of them agree with the BMA. The BMA are a union, and not a very good one, either. They allowed their junior doctors to be shafted not too long ago. DH is only still a member because he likes reading the BMJ.

His fb feed this morning if full of medics and scientists disagreeing with the BMA.