Classroom Lessons via Zoom

[jjx111]

AIBU to expect the teachers at my daughter’s rs primary school to offer at least some lessons via Zoom? The feedback I have been given is that that they aren’t offering it due to a) safeguarding issues, and b) it would add to the teachers workload. Well, surely if we parents consent for our child to sign in for these lessons then no safeguarding issue. Plus, at present, we parents are doing at least 60% of the teachers work for them via homeschooling. (I appreciate that they are setting work for the children, but this is part of the planning they would do anyway).

Our teachers - state primary use zoom. If you have a password and a waiting room it’s safe to use.

@Saoirse7
I explained why Zoom (other than safeguarding reasons) is totally unworkable for whole class learning. It really is a non starter.
And yet my onlineschooling a private online school teach via zoom day in day out. And the children learn well.

Aldi - I am guessing there isnt 30 in a class online for every lesson. I agree some zoom style lessons should be used but it wouldnt be practical for every lesson. There are lots of different ways that could work. It's just a shame that many schools are doing next to nothing other than emailing a few worksheets.

But can a 6 year old independently operate zoom, knowing the etiquette needed not to talk over the other 29 kids, and to mute when not speaking? And do they know when to ask for help?

The very best Zoom teacher I've come across (Mr Powell from "History at our House" if people are interested) has the kids show up 5 minutes early and takes them through muting, raising the hand etc.. one by one before the class starts.
And he gently reminds them throughout the lesson.

My 7 year old now uses Zoom independently because he's been taught to do it.

Teaching how to use Zoom seems to take up a significant amount of Mr. Powell time through. And his classes are very small.

This is one of the reasons I don't think it's practical for our kids normal classroom teachers.

@Changeofname79 at my online school no, classes maximum of 19 I think.
My dc primary the whole class are invited but not everyone logs on for every lesson. Maybe around 24 max.

Why can’t the children be divided into ability groups of 8, and each group have 30 minutes of maths and literacy each day?

Something like that would be easy to organise - provided there was the desire to do it. No one wants to and this is the problem. Can’t go back into schools - too dangerous. Can’t teach online - safeguarding, too dangerous.

Where is the compromise?

@aldiaisleofcrap

From their website:
"We limit our classes to no more than 20 students allowing for more focused, individualised learning."

They also only teach students whose parents value leaning enough to pay for the system, and who have the technology required.

They can kick out students who are disruptive. "Disruptive or abusive behaviour will not be tolerated at any level. On the extremely rare occasion that disruptive behaviour becomes a regular occurrence the Director may ask the pupil to leave the school."

They also have specifically set up platforms that work for teaching and aren't generalised use.

I could go on. It's fabulous, but it's not possible to roll out nationwide.

There definitely needs to be some sort of compromise IMO.

@qweryuiop yes they can (my oldest is just 7) plus there is a handy “mute all” button for the meeting organiser ;)
teachers really need to experiment with zoom a bit, and make it safe though (not hard, just periodically changing passwords, nobody allowed to screenshare except thecteacher, and everyone needs to be admitted)

Our school has between 8 (maths, english) and 32 kids (art, story reading) per session.

@aldiaisleofcrap

How many in each group?
I assume all pupils have access to an individual device?
Are classes scheduled daily/weekly?
What if a child can't get on at the time they're supposed to?
How does the teacher differentiate?

Enlighten me please, for my state school class of 33, 1/3 of who are on FSM, there's also a range of SEN issues as I cannot see it as a workable solution.

Looking forward to hearing from you, any advice would be great, thanks.

Also, do you think passwords and waiting rooms are any obstacle to hackers?

EY provider, you're talking over 4 hours of a teacher having to be on Zoom calls there. Honestly? How practical is that.

If teachers are saying this is in any way ok then I question their vocation

It’s a job. My children are my priority. I am doing the best I can with the 200 others I teach with a full timetable over Teams every day.

I get some people are having a shit time of it but I am doing my best.

Our school have used unequal access to resources as a reason not to engage with children in any way, whether live (zoom style), pre-recorded, collecting work to mark/feedback or just basically notice to motivate the kids to keep doing it.

Then they have issued suggested work via a weekly plan and a load of online resources, most requiring printing and significant parent support.

I do not see how this approach reduces inequality- I think it increases the gap as there are now not only technology requirements but also parental ability, engagement and time as barriers to accessing the education offered. Even unlimited printing capacity is surely a rarer thing for children to have access to than internet access.

This is not bashing teachers, ours or anyone else's. I'm wishing our school were engaging their students the way other primary schools in the same town are. It is possible, it's not our teachers fault, it's weak leadership. Plenty of teachers in the country working far harder than usual and managing to deliver some kind of education. Unless you think you can deliver more than half your job by a single email per half term, I can't really argue parents in our case are doing more than 50%. Or in some cases not doing it.

Honestly? How practical is that.

Lots of other sectors are spending that long in meetings daily. With lots of additional work to get on with too. And minding their own kids, etc, etc.

It’s tough, but how it is right now.

Saoirse spread over a day 4 hours on line teaching is less than they would be doing in class!!

I agree that this is a failure of leadership rather than individuals. And at the highest levels.

No it actually wouldn't and this compounds how little people understand about the inner workings of a classroom. Teachers 'teach' and explain for approx 40-45 mins in TOTAL a day for all lessons ( this is the part of the lesson people want Zoom to replicate). The rest of the time is spent, going around the kids, assessing, supporting differentiating etc.

There are too many people who think they know how kids are taught and very few who actually know how a classroom actually works. I know for me personally in Primary School it would be unworkable. Senior secondary would maybe be plausible.

Agree OP, also could use another more secure platform like Microsoft teams. Current system of one email sent out at the start of each week with links and suggestions isn't cutting it I'm afraid and requires a lot of parental involvement, planning and supervision which with both working full time in essential roles we don't have, therefore ds massively missing out.

DD school on the other hand fantastic with resources, live streams, feedback, parental support etc. Those teachers are working so hard. DS school very mediocre. Grates when other local primaries are putting so much effort in. If there's a delay in schools back delivery of education at home from schools (not home ed as a lot of us can't do that and didn't sign up for it), then it needs to be more uniform and standardised.

If I can do clinical work, consultation, stakeholder engagement, delivery of clinical training and nation wide assessments via Microsoft teams they can do the occasional lesson!

I just think that the overall message from the sector is just ‘no, can’t, wont’. And that’s at the highest level. The lack of creative thinking in terms of solutions is quite something.

Because it obviously can be done and plenty of schools (and individuals) are doing so. Why are their methods not being applied more widely? Why are there no standards being set across the sector?

There is no ‘one size fits a solution’ but there should be agreement on objectives and openness to trying different platforms and methods to achieve them.

It’s absolutely not good enough that some children are getting a proper, engaged programme of teaching and others are flung a worksheet if they’re lucky.

Where do you think all the money for appropriate equipment and training for staff to effectively teach the children would come from? It would look completely different to the good practise that teacher have been used to. And it would very unfair to expect teachers to do it without training, can you imagine how much criticism they would be in from parents who would do it differently.

The government funded the oak academy and the criticism some of those teachers have had is ridiculous. It would be awful to put others in that situation.

The rest of us in our jobs haven't had a national roll out of best practice and training. We have worked out what we can do and done it and learned from those who got off the ground quicker and learned from experience in the first few weeks. It feels like my kids school (not all schools, our school) are not looking for what they can do and not willing to learn from others, they're only looking at the difficulties.

Hey, us parents at home haven't been trained how to educate our children either. You think teachers would do a worse job than us trying to do our own full time jobs at the same time as educate?

It's noticeable that those who don't get income unless they deliver content have consistently delivered- private schools, out of school clubs, music teachers have all found ways. They weren't trained, they talked to their peers and worked it out as individuals or organisations.

Teachers 'teach' and explain for approx 40-45 mins in TOTAL a day for all lessons ( this is the part of the lesson people want Zoom to replicate). The rest of the time is spent, going around the kids, assessing, supporting differentiating etc

This!! ^^

Because the teachers cant physically be with our kids, it falls to us to check our kids can understand the work, see if it's being done correctly, notice what they find easy and what they struggle with, keep them on task....

I think some people have latched onto Zoom meetings as a thing which will lessen the need for us to do all that. parents. And, unfortunately, I don't think they would.

And I say this as someone who does like Zoom classes and pays for DS to do some privately.

I see them as a "nice to have" extra. Not a necessity.