To not want my child to return to a school full of reluctant teachers

[Heldupwithscaffolding]

Even if the Government endorses school reopening, who would want to send their child into an environment where the teachers clearly do not want them there ?

What do the flowers mean?

They're polite/annoying :o way of not engaging with goady posters, or telling them to fuck off.

@mumtomaxwell
people don’t want to parent their own kids! I have said this a number of times, and been told I'm unreasonable, so I'm glad others feel the same.
Ultimately, this pandemic has really highlighted to me, the people who never should have had children, as they don't wishbto be with them and are not willing to put their own interests second.

@SoloMummy maybe it's more that people like me may have to choose between feeding their children by keeping their job and sending them to school or losing their job and home etc..
Also even if you are not in that position this is having a negative impact on children especially those who are vulnerable and perhaps parents are worried about that more than the virus or maybe their own mental health is poor and it's about survival. It's too simple to say people do not want to parent their own children.

@metronome1 if it makes you feel better, I love my days in with the key worker kids. I agree with the letter being a step too far. It could have been more reassuring.

@aquietlifeplease - it's the R. In March, it was at 3. Now it is just below 1. By September it might be at zero. 3 months ago, London was the most infected place in the UK. Now they are saying it might be eradicated in London in the next few weeks. By September, how many more places will be safer?

Theredjellybean
Genuine question.. How come other eur countries have sent children back and there does not seem to have been the same angst from their teaching staff?

Please have a look at how other countries have gone back.

Single years, sometimes on a rota over several days.
classes of between 3 and 10 children all socially distanced.
All temp checked and hands washed (well sanitised)
Some kids with masks, some without.
Some teachers with masks some without.

All R rates have gone up on return to school and non of these countries has tried to put 3/5s of the school population in together (and in some cases nurseries)

The pictures are from a French school.

You may have seen pictures from Danish, and Chinese schools.

I understand the R but I'm hearing a lot about how come September things will be better, we don't know that, the R will most likely go up as lockdown is relaxed and if this coincides with the flu season the stress on our health service will be even greater which will mean this whole scenario will continue. I'm not trying to be goady I just don't see a point where teachers will want kids in school until we have "the vaccine".

@SoloMummy that is a really unpleasant view of parents who will lose jobs/homes/lives without school being a constant in their lives.

We dont know that things will be better. But the evidence so far suggests that social distancing prevents infection - so it might be better. I also want to go back and teach. Proper classes (even if they are smaller). I think we have a better chance of the R going down if we keep schools closed to most pupils. If we keep public pools, cinemas, indoor play areas, inside restaurants closed too. Start to open them slowly over the summer maybe. Then bring schools back once the R has consistently stayed low. London are on the verge of being virus free, why would we open schools and risk a re-emergence. The British Medical Council agree it is too soon and have written to teaching unions confirming their stance.

Thank you to those who answered my question, as I said it was genuine and now understand that in other countries there has been better planning perhaps and more funding available.
One more question.. Has the guidance to schools here said all children in the yrs suggested go back?
Someone commented to my question that other countries have had smaller groups in on rotating days to allow for more space etc.
Is that not being done here?
Are all classes going back full-time?

@Whatsername177
Its the British medical association.. Who are a union
Their statement is not representative of most doctors who probably have had their children in school throughout anyway.
As a doctor I do not like the BMA portraying itself as the voice of the whole profession. They are just another union with their own agenda

It wasn’t in the first draft, but then late, Wednesday evening (once schools had written their plans many including a rota system) we were told they all had to be in full time!

aquietlifeplease

I haven't found any teacher that has said "wait for a vaccine"

What we are saying that it needs to be done in a more measured and phased way.

Other countries have sent 1 year back, socially distanced etc.
The spike has gone up, and they have waited for it to go down.

Next phase of school entry happens. Spike goes up, Spike comes down etc. etc.

It is possible for schools to go back on a phased return without taking our R number over one.

And that is how it should be done.

And Teachers, have the NHS, and BMA saying the same thing.

@theredjellybean
Guidance says that rotas should not be used, and that all children in the year groups should be encouraged to attend (it's only guidance, so schools can disregard if it's not suitable to the context). Which does seem more than what other countries are doing, although I don't know exactly.

How measured and slow do you want it? At the local junior school 120 invited back out of 480 (yr 6) out of those if all the mums saying they don’t want their child back only 60 kids out of 480 will return at first - that’s one child to each adult ratio.

Well I believe that going back to school will not genuinely help either the education or mental health of my child. Not enough to take the risk.
I'm worried about both these things but unless everyone is there I doubt the normal curriculum can be delivered. And with social distancing in place I fear his mental health will suffer more.

So it's a no from be. Not worth the risk to him and to his teachers, who I know would never let their "reluctance" show.

@connelltheunicorn. How great a risk do you actually think there is?

Theredjellybean

Has the guidance to schools here said all children in the yrs suggested go back?

Yes.

Someone commented to my question that other countries have had smaller groups in on rotating days to allow for more space etc.
Is that not being done here?

No, the guidance says that rotas for children are not allowed, and says that smaller classes of up to 15 should be used where possible, given that this doubles the amount of teachers and classrooms in use, it is not possible. (and before anyone says "can do attitude" fuck off).

Are all classes going back full-time?

With out rotas, possibly.

Wow.. I presumed that when it was reported classes of 15, I presumed rotas..
I guess schools can use other Yr group classrooms and other Yr groups teachers.. But then you have to start adding in more yrs and then it gets harder I guess.
That does seem tricky and slightly unreasonable
I don't have primary age kids but if I had say a Yr 4 child and their teacher had to stop doing virtual school for my child as they had to go teach a reception group I'd be pretty pissed off.
I think teachers might get more support if they highlighted that area.. The current media reporting is making it all about teachers being scared of catching the virus... Turn the narrative to.. Well by getting some kids back others suffer more might make parents more sympathetic.
Thank you again to the replies.. I was neutralish on the issue but now can understand why it is more difficult than other countries approaches

If those photos further up indicate what school will be like for little ones (the playground one made me tear up) then I've changed my mind. I don't think it will be good for children's mental health at all.

...at least children's home life is as close to normal as parents can make it. But all those spacing lines in the classroom and outdoors shriek "There's something really dangerous and scary going on that has changed school forever" and mean that the children can't play or interact at all. And it's social interaction with their friends that they need most.

No, I wouldn't be sending any of mine if they were that age.
It's come to something when childcare is more important than people's lives.
I think those who can choose will keep them off, then those wanting to go back to work will have childcare.
Not fair to expect teachers to provide this care though, bring the child minders in, or ask for volunteers to put their lives at risk for your kids.

We have been in this week sorting out the classrooms. We are now only having the reception children back as we don’t have enough staff or classrooms for any other years. 2 of the reception teachers are shielding so won’t be back, the ‘classes’ will generally be staffed by TA or year 2 teachers, who the YRs won’t know.

They will be ten to a class and will be sitting on rubber spots spread out in the floor or desks. They will have a cup with a pencil, crayons etc in with their name on. The soft toys and toys with small parts have been removed from the room, as have any soft furnishings. They will not necessarily be with their friends and won’t be mixing with the other classes throughout the day. Lunch will be a cold pack up eaten in their classrooms and start/finish times are staggered to avoid crowds and queues. Books won’t come home and parents won’t be allowed in to the classroom to speak to the teacher.

We will do our best to try to make it normal for the children, but as you can see-it isn’t normal.

Your OP implies we are reluctant to come back just because we don’t want to. That couldn’t be further from the truth. I think this environment may well be very upsetting for EYFS children and I actually wonder if some will do one day and not want to return. I would rather keep mine at home.

Held teachers aren't "returning to work". They have been working throughout. Some keyworker support in school and distance learning through wfh where you can as per the governments guidelines.
This isn't about teachers not returning to work. It's another returning to classrooms and the impact of transmission, staff, pupils and parents.
The only issue is that supermarkets have had social distancing, 1 adult where possible, limited numbers and screens and many offer face masks to staff. Staff are t static in one place in poorly ventilated spaces.
There has been issues with PPE for nhs and also care homes (although most care homes are private so that's not gov duristriction )

The guidelines are return to work when safe. Condo secure settings with strict guidelines and use of PPE at times social distancing cannot happens but this must be for short periods.

Yet - apparently - teachers don't need shielded desks, Covid secure workplaces with guidelines, PPE etc.

It has NOTHING to do with not wanting to be in school.
EVERYTHING to do with wanting to know why the science says staff and pupils don't need the same environment as everyone else.