To refuse to have a corona vaccine?

[EasyPleasey]

A lot of people seem to be waiting for a corona vaccine. However I just dont trust any vaccine 'rushed' out, especially after all the mistakes made so far in this crisis. I would rather catch the actual virus and take my chances, as for most people it is a mild illness but who knows what the vaccine may do.

I know quite a few other people who say they will refuse any vaccine for this. I have had all the other vaccines, as have my children.

AIBU?

The point of lockdown is to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed by too many cases all at once - flattening the curve. It’s not trying to prevent everyone from ever getting it

I know. Those who catch it and need ITU treatment (a minority) benefit from this as it allows capacity for them to be treated. It doesn’t benefit anyone who isn’t going to need treatment to recover.

It's simple. You may rather take your chances but the people you pass by in everyday life may not. How would you feel if say walking down the street you infected a newborn because you did not want a vaccine. Same issue still occurs with measles.

@Ethelfleda 🤣 you win the prize for the most ridiculous, ill thought out comment on Mumsnet this week.

Care to apply your logic to other conditions, diseases and injuries that the NHS treats?

No, I didn't think so.

@RoosterPie Whets your point? How would an immune person staying at home help anyone - whether they need ICU treatment or not?

you win the prize for the most ridiculous, ill thought out comment on Mumsnet this week

Jeez. Get over yourself!
This is a situation where it was feared that the NHS would be overwhelmed due to this pandemic. You’re not comparing like for like. Someone declaring they would rather ‘take their chance with the virus’ is very individualistic and shows a complete lack of understanding of just how that choice would affect others around them. Not to mention passing on a highly infectious disease that someone else may not want to ‘take their chances with’
Your logic is flawed I’m afraid. And your tone abhorrent.

Care to apply your logic to other conditions, diseases and injuries that the NHS treats?

In case you need me to spell it out for you, a great many of the diseases, conditions and injuries that the NHS treats ARE NOT CONTAGIOUS.

My point @bumbleymummy is a) we don’t know enough about immunity and whether people who have had it pose a risk or not in terms of still carrying small viral loads which can be passed on and b) if they were allowed out but people who had not had covid were not, it would mean the healthy would want to catch it and the concept of a lockdown to reduce spread To protect the vulnerable would be unsustainable.

The core concept at the heart of all of this is that sometimes you have to consider people other than yourself and your own selfish interests.

As long as the vaccine is determined to be safe, I am coming round to the idea of having it. My initial reaction to a post a couple of weeks ago was 'no way'. I am now thinking I will have it as I don't want to have covid, be asymptomatic, and inadvertently pass it on to someone else who isn't vaccinated and who may suffer badly or even die from it.

On the topic of the actual vaccine though....
It’ll be interesting as to whom it is rolled out to. These things cost money, after all - will they only vaccinate the same cohort as receives the annual flu vaccine I wonder? And the rest of us, if we choose, can trot down to Boots and pay £20 for one...??
In theory, I can’t actually see a major issue with choosing not to be vaccinated as I imagine the uptake will be so big, that it may not matter about the small percentage that choose not to have it.
However, I would always say to question your choices and do some research first.
If it was compulsory I would get vaccinated. If it wasn’t compulsory for me (youngish, healthy weight etc) then I’m not sure I would.

The core concept at the heart of all of this is that sometimes you have to consider people other than yourself and your own selfish interests

This.

@Roosterpie Are you one of these people who thinks we have to stay in lockdown until a vaccine is developed?

Why do you think a vaccine will work if we don’t know if having the disease confers immunity? In the absence of a vaccine, healthy people contracting the disease while vulnerable people stay locked down is the only way to create any degree of herd immunity for their protection.

You could actually argue that the healthy people who are prepared to go out and risk infection are being quite selfless. They are prepared to take the risk because it will help build herd immunity that can protect others.

Immunity after co tracking a virus and recovering is apparently, not the same as immunity from a vaccination. I can’t for the life of me remember where I read it but I definitely did.
Besides, unless a vaccine gives immunity it wouldn’t be deemed a ‘successful one’ and therefore would never make it in to mass production anyway.

No I’m not one of those people, I think they’re being ridiculous. I think we healthy need to accept that the risk is out there and people refusing to leave their house until it’s “safe” are not being realistic.

But the lockdown was necessary or the death rate would have skyrocketed. If we do go for herd immunity it needs to be at a controlled rate, again restricting the healthy for the benefit of others (though hopefully not at anything like the current level).

I’m not sure how that deals with the issue.

Have a feeling this is Anti Vaxxer propoganda - will request HQ to check through your previous posts to double check.

I'm unsure how i feel too, I don't know why but I've always had a bad feeling/anxiety about vaccines. Probably to do with seeing so many conspiracy theories around them. Damned if I do damned if I don't kind of thing.
Same reason as why I don't have the flu jab.
I get anxiety taking an anxiety tablet 🤦🏻‍♀️

So a vaccine is offered, there are no contraindications as to why you can't have it - it is purely choice? Ok so you become seriously ill with it (unfortunately there are cases of healthy people with no weight issues succumbing) I'm guessing you are going to want treatment though aren't you! Selfish!

'You could actually argue that the healthy people who are prepared to go out and risk infection are being quite selfless. They are prepared to take the risk because it will help build herd immunity that can protect others.'

But then they may give it to others who are not quite so healthy! Yes, people who HAVE to take the risks in order to save others from illness or severe deprivation (e.g. heathcare workers, rubbish collectors, shop workers and delivery drivers, etc.), are heroes who deserve ardent thanks and adequate PPE!!! But your argument would only work to some extent, if people became ill the moment they were infected and there was no incubation period. People can easily give the virus to others if they take risks. And the world can't be divided into just two groups: the healthy and the obviously unhealthy. There are many people who are at increased risk but not high enough to be 'shielded'. Should we all be sacrificed to 'herd immunity'? Or all forced to stay out of society forever? Which of course would require a drastic lowering of the retirement age, and a collapse of charities that depend on volunteers. And even then, some apparently young and healthy people have undiagnosed underlying conditions that could kill them or turn them into permanent invalids if they catch the virus.

'Almost all laws do that! If you're forbidden to commit burglary or assault, it's for the benefit of those who might be burgled or assaulted!
Omg most tenuous link I’ve ever seen 😂😂 Jesus'

I've been burgled. I also caught the Hong Kong flu as a young child, when I was in hospital for something else, almost certainly from a doctor who turned out to have it.

Both were nasty experiences, but having this awful flu on top of my existing illness was far worse.

Probably in 1968 there wasn't an adequate vaccination for it. But if someone deliberately risks exposing patients to serious illnesses, then, yes, I think it's something that should be forbidden.

But if someone deliberately risks exposing patients to serious illnesses, then, yes, I think it's something that should be forbidden
Tell that to all the people I work with at the hospital (some in ICU) who don’t have a full history of accepting each and every vaccine. Several people I know are actually anti-vaxxers for religious reasons and they are brilliant nurses. Would you threaten all these people with the sack? Totally unethical to threaten people into consent

It’s not about threatening! If there were a jail term for non-vaccination, that would be coercion. It’s about managing the risk to others if people aren’t vaccinated.

People cant just expect do what they want without consequences and start claiming to have been threatened if there are consequences.

There have been instances of hastily released vaccines causing difficulties, for example a vaccine against swine flu caused an autoimmune disorder in some recipients that now suffer from narcolepsy. There is an ongoing legal case about this. Google "Pandemrix narcolepsy" for more information.

Nevertheless these cases are so rare and the benefits of vaccines so great that I am staunchly pro-vaccine and would gladly accept a covid vaccine of it was recommended to me by my doctor.

If there were a jail term for non-vaccination, that would be coercion
If you threatened to sack people who didn’t want to have a particular vaccine how is that not coercion? They’d be forced into having the vaccine to put food on the table. That’s not true consent!

Doesn’t matter @Frankiegoestocornwall. The important distinction is you’re not saying someone will lose their job as a punishment, you’re saying that they can’t keep their job because of the risk which would be posed to others.

I have no idea if this vaccine will be deemed necessary to be a front line health worker in practice, but if the evidence suggests that there is an intolerable risk to the patients of being treated by someone unvaccinated then obviously people who won’t get vaccinated can’t continue to work.

Plenty of jobs have mandatory requirements.