To refuse to have a corona vaccine?

[EasyPleasey]

A lot of people seem to be waiting for a corona vaccine. However I just dont trust any vaccine 'rushed' out, especially after all the mistakes made so far in this crisis. I would rather catch the actual virus and take my chances, as for most people it is a mild illness but who knows what the vaccine may do.

I know quite a few other people who say they will refuse any vaccine for this. I have had all the other vaccines, as have my children.

AIBU?

Can someone please explain to me why somebody who refuses a vaccine has the right to put others in danger?

Would it be simplest to just deny Covid 19 NHS treatment to anyone who refuses the vaccine? I completely accept a persons right to refuse the vaccine, but fail to see why we should pay for their resulting treatment
That’s kind of like saying
We shouldn’t give abortions on the NHS because people shouldn’t have unprotected sex
We shouldn’t treat alcoholics for drink related illness
We shouldn’t treat obese people who have diabetes or heart attacks or cancer etc
We shouldn’t treat people who drink and drive and who end up in a collision

Because all those people are putting themselves at risk, why should the NHS pay for their treatment?

Thankfully we live in a civilised society where people can have access to treatment no matter who they are even if the result is their own doing. That’s exactly what the NHS is about, medical rights for all.

I'll be happy to have it, after all the beta testers have gone first. (Only half unserious.)

@Theycallmetiagoidkwhosmargot If you can’t see the difference between those scenarios and people refusing a vaccine then there’s not much point debating

YABVU and really ignorant.

Care to elaborate if you are so knowledgeable @heartsonacake?

@letmethinkaboutitfornow

And although that list may be good for your health there is no significant evidence to show these ideas 'boost' or 'increase' your immune system. I suspect being medically qualified you know this?

@Rowantree2020 sounds like you know I’m right

So normally vaccines take ages because there are small groups of scientists doing the work and subject to funding, ethical approval can take weeks and months because it goes into a queue with all the other research.

This vaccine doesn’t face those challenges. Money is being thrown and it and queues are being jumped - not missed or rushed but just not waiting in line to be reviewed.

Also they haven’t “just started” developing a vaccine for corona virus, it’s not a new virus, covid-19 was identified in 2019 but coronaviruses have been around for ages. They’ve been working on the generic vaccine for years and it was essentially ready anyway. It’s like the flu jab, they’ll modify it for the strain for covid-19 in the same way they modify the flu jab for the anticipated prevalent strain of flu.

I’ll have it, I have the flu jab every year anyway and never get my knickers in a twist that it’s “rushed”. I shall be fighting my way to the front of the queue.

@wolfgirrl

'Can someone please explain to me why somebody who refuses a vaccine has the right to put others in danger?'

They shouldn't, hence why I think they should have to remain in lockdown.

I also think we should go down the Australian route and refuse state school and other public services to people who refuse vaccines and thus put innocent people using these public services in danger.

If private services started doing this I would be in full support of them. I would much rather send my DC to a nursery or childminders which requires proof of vaccination (or medical, and only medical not belief based, exemption from them). I would support hotels/airlines and any other business that could possibly implement this (I.e. those which already have prior checks as part of there service).

It is people choice to vaccinate or not and I do not believe in forced vaccination and fully support bodily autonomy. However, all choices have consequences, and the consequence of choosing not to vaccinate puts others and public health in danger, thus making this choice should result in other measure to mitigate that danger.

I don't understand anti vaxxers, who ignore the advice of the medically trained, but listen to a blog post written by Barbara, stay at home mum of three, medical knowledge comes from 'her friend who has a child with SEN'.

What baffles me more is that children who haven't been vaccinated are allowed in nurseries with small babies.

Anyway, back on topic...
Thank goodness most others will do the right thing when a vaccination becomes available. YABVU.

Rowantree I was responding to you assertion that the medical conditions mentioned were difficult to attribute to specific behaviours.

Don’t get me wrong, myself and my kids have had all vaccines offered. (I also do high risk sports.) But, I think caution about the vaccine is a reasonable position. I also think that withholding healthcare is massively problematic.

incredibly I’m not sure there is a coronavirus vaccine waiting in the wings ready to be tweaked, hence the WHO emergencies expert referred to a vaccine as a “moonshot.”

(I acknowledge we did get to the moon, but it took a while and was pretty risky.)

I don't think it's unreasonable to be cautious, but the safety and efficacy data of any/all vaccines that may be granted a license for use in the UK should be publicly available and you will be able to weigh up benefit vs possible risk then

@AnaisB I completely agree that it’s problematic. But we have limited resources and where we have collectively invested in a vaccine and taking that vaccine does not impact on a person’s lifestyle or the activities they indulge in then it seems fair to say to people: “here’s the free treatment for this condition, you can refuse it, but if you do then don’t expect access to vastly more expensive treatment down the line”

wouldn't take it either. They have never found a vaccine for a sars virus in all the time they have had. 2 weeks and they had one for covid when we don't fully understand the virus to begin with. Take into account the covid cases being inflated in some places and lowered in others you have to ask why can't they just be honest. Yes its dangerous but not enough for those in control to care so why would they care about the safety of a vaccine. I'll give it a miss.

Lets not forget a vaccine is not our only defence here.

SARS fizzled out and subsequently the many research efforts to tackle it. SARS-CoV-2 has a lovely specific and essential spike protein on it's surface that will likely be the target for a vaccine

I don't understand anti vaxxers
You’re not an anti-vaxxer just by turning down one brand new vaccine that you are cautious about because it’s new. I’ve taken every vaccine I’ve ever been offered because I was able to research them because they had several years of history and data behind them.
I will hopefully one day have the Covid vaccine if they find one. It certainly won’t be in the first couple of years though because I like to research what I’m agreeing to. I’m sure the vast majority of people (except real anti-vaxxers) who would initially say no to the vaccine have the same view as me

I work within clinical trials, involved in the design, monitoring and reporting of both lab studies and field studies (almost always in that order). That includes the reporting of information to reg bodies years after the drug is launched into the field and adverse events are documented. That big long list of possible side effects in drug packets isn’t just information gathered during trials, that’s collected from real use and reporting months to years after launch.

So I too will be waiting until the vaccine is widely used because that’s when they’ll see real use side effects. Not antivaxx by any means, but I also don’t have faith in the companies and bodies pushing vaccines out this quickly, first to the post wins. And I work within them, so I wouldn’t necessarily put people down for being wary.

No of course no one should put others in danger if they can do something about it, but each individual needs to take into account the risks and benefits of medication that has no long term research, and lets be honest our children and loved ones come before the general population.

And this virus is mutating rapidly so I don’t hold much hope out it’ll be largely effective.

SARS is a type of coronavirus, they shelfed the vaccine because SARS fizzled out. But they haven’t started from scratch developing a coronavirus vaccine, they’re doing a lot of going back

Don’t have it. Just don’t expect any sympathy if you get and die of Covid after it’s offered. Also remember that generally vaccines can’t be given to small babies so you will be putting their lives at risk if this is the case with the Covid one.
If you can live with that do as you wish.

Haven’t read the whole thread but I’m not sure if this vaccine should it be developed, would be one where pretty much everyone were expected to have it as part of an eradication program or if it would be more like the annual flu vaccine which is given to those vulnerable eg elderly and those with conditions that make them at risk. If the latter, most people wouldn’t have it nor need it.
It’s also going to take a long time to vaccinate everyone, especially taking consideration of time taken to mass produce enough. I expect it will go to higher risk categories as priority and rest of society could take years .....?
I wouldn’t be rushing to the front of the queue

Anyone who starts a thread (again) about vaccines and trots out the words 'rushed' and 'not properly tested' in the OP, quickly followed by a comparison with the thalidomide tragedy, shows a massive lack of knowledge on multiple fronts.

If you don't want a vaccine should one be one available, don't have it. However, don't spread misinformation about the clinical trials process and liken it to events 60+ years ago.

If a coronavirus vaccine is produced, it will take ages to roll it out across the full population of people who want it. It'll be more in-demand than toilet tissue was, so OP, I wouldn't worry about being forced to have it.

@Incrediblytired I don’t think this is just a case of plugging cv into a pre-developed flu vaccine. It’s a DNA/RNA vaccine which are not in widespread use.

“There are no approved mRNA or DNA vaccines, and neither has ever been tested in a large-scale clinical trial for an infectious disease. “The COVID crisis is a great opportunity for those technologies to be pushed.”

“ Biotech companies have been touting mRNA and DNA vaccines as the ideal technologies for rapidly fighting new pathogens, and the coronavirus pandemic may be their best chance yet to prove their worth. “It will be the first time that they will be tested in so many people,” says Wim Tiest, a former vaccine developer at GlaxoSmithKline who is now leading a COVID-19 program at the Belgian mRNA vaccine company eTheRNA Immunotherapies.”

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