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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Self employed cleaner only going back to clients who have continued to pay/support.

408 replies

shonapop · 12/05/2020 14:56

Seriously considering ditching the people who didn't give a toss. Anyone out there the same?

OP posts:
QuestionMarkNow · 14/05/2020 21:17

@Rainbow12e, yep but only if you are also paying your hairdresser, your child’s music teacher,, tennis coach, tutor, your physio, the lady doing your nails and the one doing your waxing.
Because they are all helping you too.

StillCoughingandLaughing · 14/05/2020 21:33

Also, if you are all happy not to pay/do not care about the person helping you, then do not be surprised if your cleaner/babysitter does not come back.

They’re not doing it as a favour! They’re selling a service and clients are paying for it. If they don’t want the money from a particular client anymore, that’s their call - but they will need to find a replacement client, just as the client will need to find a replacement cleaner.

lifestooshort123 · 14/05/2020 22:01

But none of you are paying your cleaner as they're not actually cleaning - you are giving her a retainer. What would you do when it's all over if your cleaner decides she can't be ar**d to do any cleaning after all and you get dumped? Paying a retainer is not legally binding.

Rainbow12e · 14/05/2020 22:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SonnyRobes · 14/05/2020 22:54

You can "ditch" whichever clients you like but what you're really saying is that you're going to throw a strop because people didn't want to give you free money.
If I cut off everyone who didn't want to give me money for doing nothing then I wouldn't have many people left.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 14/05/2020 23:10

If clients choose to go on paying that's one thing, but for someone to expect it is something else again

And I'm not sure a cleaner who expects to be paid whether the work's done or not is someone I'd want to use

Rainbow12e · 14/05/2020 23:12

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SmileyClare · 14/05/2020 23:26

I agree Puzzled I haven't heard of any cleaners who have asked for retainer payments. That must be very unusual.. and fairly entitled to expect it. There's no obligation.

Certainly on here, posters have said they offered some payment to their cleaner or even insisted in some cases.

Paying a retainer is not legally binding absolutely. For a long standing cleaner there is a high level of trust though. I mean I have house keys, I'm trusted not to steal the family heirlooms, trusted not to steal money left out or take their car for a spin and on one job trusted with their new born child (!) I also work in a small rural area so would never work again if I ran off with retainer payments and didn't return.
It depends on the situation. It's a good will agreement for both parties.

Let's also not carried away with the sums of money here. Say a cleaner does 3 hours a week usually @ £12ph then a retainer offered might be around £12.

monkeycats · 15/05/2020 11:16

Some people have hairdressers who come into their home every few weeks to cut the whole family’s hair. Other people might have a regular tutor who has been coming for years and has worked wonders with their kids. Or a music / singing teacher perhaps? You might have a dog walker who comes everyday. Or someone who shampoos the carpets every month. Maybe you see a regular counsellor or psychotherapist who can’t work over this period either. Maybe you have had regular home masseuse or reflexologist who has been coming for years? What about your personal trainer, if you have one? Or the window cleaners?

Cleaners provide a professional service just the same as any if the above. It’s probably a little deluded to position yourself as more worthy of retainers or special treatment because if the perceived “special relationship” you have with clients. I’m not sure where this notion comes from really..

Supposing someone felt obliged to pay all of the above services over an indefinite period? Would this be reasonable?

Some cleaners are easier to have in your home than others, sure. Some do a better job. But it’s much easier to find a new cleaner than a new personal trainer or therapist who suits you. Or hairdresser. Or tutor for you child. Just think about it.

Individual families are not companies. Nor are they social services.

We used to have a cleaner and yes, she was a lovely woman, but when she went away as she has done frequently over the years, I had my neighbour’s cleaner come in a few times and there was no difference really. I would only ever ask a cleaner to hoover, mop and light dusting or light cleaning of the bathroom. I don’t even expect her to deal with emptying bins. No laundry or beds. I make sure all floors and surfaces are cleared before they arrive. I certainly don’t ever expect them to pick up or tidy my family’s clothes or stuff or make beds. I treat them with respect as a professional CLEANING service, as I would treat any other service. I have someone shampoo the stair carpets monthly and it’s the same thing. Cleaners are not general skivvies and I would feel uncomfortable having someone in my home where there is that kind of power imbalance. I don’t need a “special relationship “ with the person who hoovers, mops and does light cleaning in my home. I have 4 kids, elderly parents and all sorts of commitments in my life and I want someone who can come and go as a professional. I don’t want to feel responsible for them and their wider lives, simply because they spend a few hours in my house every week. Sorry, but that’s how I approach it. My cleaner had her own husband and two sons of working age in their 20s. Now it looks as though they’re moving back to their own country and good for them. I always paid her £15 per hour and gave her a bonus at Xmas of about 3 weeks pay because I’d rather someone was happy to come to my home and paid above the going rate out of respect. I want someone who sees themselves as an independent business woman, not as a skivvy who wants to lean on my family and make us feel emotionally responsible for her life situation. I fallen for that before. Never again.

Biker47 · 15/05/2020 11:21

Don't have a cleaner, but as I've said in another thread, like fuck would I be paying someone to not do work for me. I'd maybe at a push negotiate a retainer fee that would part pay for the work when it resumes, but a passive aggressive demand to pay instead of a request or negotiation, or insinuation they wouldn't return afterwards would be met with a goodbye and good luck.

sleepyhead · 15/05/2020 11:29

It's totally up to you who you work for. You can stop cleaning for someone because you don't like the colour of their curtains, or they have too many stairs, or their dog is a terrible shedder, or they don't have the type of coffee you like, or they're rude to you, or you just can't be arsed any more.

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face though. If there's a recession coming, domestic services are usually the first to be cut - mind you, if some of your clients can afford to keep paying you it might be a good indicator that they're a fair bet going forward so probably right to prioritise them.

monkeycats · 15/05/2020 12:03

Also, even if you were the type of client to want to develop a personal relationship with your cleaner, whether you decide to pay her a retainer or not depends on her circumstances as much as your own - eg does she have a husband who is the main wage earner and she does a few cleaning jobs for extra money / cash in the side? Or is she a single mum of six children? These factors are obviously quite key.

In general though, people hire cleaners, like any other service, to save time and free up time to do other things. If you have time to sit around having a coffee with your cleaner and getting to know the ins and outs of her personal circumstances and life, you probably have time to do the cleaning yourself!

cologne4711 · 15/05/2020 12:06

if you are all happy not to pay/do not care about the person helping you

they're not helping, they are providing a paid-for service.

And the government is offering a self-employed grant which is up to £7500 for the three months for which they will be eligible unless they only started their business recently.

Rainbow12e · 15/05/2020 12:49

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrpumblechook · 15/05/2020 13:27

The main thing is, if you find them so easy to replace, do not get annoyed when they find nicer people to work for. It works both ways.

They probably won't be annoyed. Some of my friends have decided not to have a cleaner for a few months anyway to reduce the risk of being infected and to save money due to an uncertain future.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/05/2020 13:48

whether you decide to pay her a retainer or not depends on her circumstances as much as your own - eg does she have a husband who is the main wage earner and she does a few cleaning jobs for extra money / cash in the side? Or is she a single mum of six children?

I get the point, but TBH I'm not that interested in the personal details of folk I employ - not in a nasty way, but simply because I don't think it's any of my business. Further, if I tried to query their financial circumstances I'd expect (quite rightly) to be told where to go

Overall I treat them as responsible people who can presumably see to their own affairs in a responsible manner, whether that's a cleaner, a nursery worker, a waiter or anything else ... and if they're not responsible I won't be employing them anyway

Rainbow12e · 15/05/2020 13:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsFogi · 15/05/2020 15:34

If anyone is seeing the payment as a "retainer" i.e. the aim of the payment is to ensure the person providing the service (whatever it is) returns at some point I would have thought it would make more sense to offer to pay a "return bonus" (e.g. an uplift on the hourly rate for the first few weeks/months) in order to ensure that the payment actually achieves its stated aim (i.e. the person needs to return in order to get the payment).

monkeycats · 15/05/2020 15:47

Yes Rainbow, but the point is, a cleaner is not a sitter! Why are you trying to conflate the two? Of course if your nanny or babysitter doesn’t show up with no notice, then that’s an inconvenience if you need to leave for work / other event. But if your cleaner doesn’t show, it’s hardly the end of the world, is it? You might have to get the hoover out. What’s the worst that can happen really?

Also, I would never take advantage of a cleaner by leaving her in charge of my kids! This is a totally different job. Her job is to clean - not deal with my kids or even pets. She doesn’t deal with laundry or bedding. She doesn’t need to pick up after us or tidy up. I don’t even want people touching my stuff, clothes or going in cupboards. She has the right to expect the house ready to be cleaned and hoovered when she arrives - ie clear floors, clear kitchen surfaces, dishes in dishwasher, shoes tided, beds made, toilets flushed and towels hung etc etc. She can do her job and then be on her way.

A sitter or nanny is a whole different ballgame requiring a totally different skill-set and here, you really do have to find someone who “gels” with your kids. Not to mention police checked; references; interviewed; tried and tested.,This is a MUCH more personal relationship.

I see a cleaner as a professional and relate to her as such. She’s providing a service at an agreed rate and an agreed job spec. No more, no less. Same as anyone else.

MarshaBradyo · 15/05/2020 15:49

I was thinking about that actually. If I get a cleaner back I might do a return bonus. I’m not in a hurry though as too many people in the house atm.

MarshaBradyo · 15/05/2020 15:51

I don’t agree with the ‘help you’ concept either. It’s a paid for service like anything else. I’m not even home usually anyway.

monkeycats · 15/05/2020 16:18

If I had a cleaner who decided to clean for someone else, well that’s her choice. Why would I care or even need to know? She’s SE. A free-agent. She can work when and as she sees fit; take jobs or leave them - basically be her own boss. I wouldn’t expect anything less and I certainly wouldn’t want anyone feeling obliged to stay working for me if she had better offers elsewhere. Why would I? Confused

My cleaner had been coming for years, but when she told me she was going back to her country to sell some property and wasn’t sure when she’d be back, I was genuinely delighted for her because she deserves it, quite frankly. I could have had another cleaner within a day - this is London. But I thought. I’d see what it was like without one. To be honest, I bought a cordless vacuum for the stairs and one of those automated vacuums for the wood floors that just goes round and I don’t think I’ll have a cleaner now going forward. Maybe just once a week and not twice, but my kids are getting older and they’re starting to help out more now as well. When I first got a cleaner, it was when I had 4 DC under 8 and then it just kind of became a habit to have one. Lockdown has made people think about their habits and spending patterns, I think. Not just cleaners, but other areas too - eg DH has loads of DIY and decorating, whereas I know we would have got someone in before for the same tasks. We’ve done the garden together; learned about plants and all kinds or things I wouldn’t have had time to look into before or felt able to have a go at.

SmileyClare · 15/05/2020 17:19

I'm baffled by Mumsnet sometimes. When we went into lockdown in March there were lots of threads from posters with cleaners. By far the majority posting were keen to keep paying cleaners, gardeners, nannies etc. Nearly everyone was claiming to be continuing payment. People were berated for not offering any support.

I read most of them open mouthed as none of my (cleaner) clients offered me money, admittedly one offered a small loan.

What has changed since then I suppose is that The Government later announced a income support scheme for most self employed. The general attitude now is Like fuck am I paying for a service I'm not getting.Grin

I still think it's a kind gesture to offer something if people can afford it although I didn't expect it and didn't get it!. It's a bit awkward really, I would forever feel a bit beholden to them I think and then feel I couldn't raise my prices or say No to extras in the future because they'd been so charitable.

Mlou32 · 15/05/2020 17:47

Is it really that people didn't give a toss? Other people have also been left in tight spots and they may not have had the money themselves to continue to pay you.

MarshaBradyo · 15/05/2020 17:48

Smiley I don’t think you get a good indication from posts on here. Even the difference between posts and the poll on the other thread was marked.

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