To be pissed off at people who constantly say we need to fly less?

[lockdowncockdown]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but here goes. Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by the people who constantly say 'well, we need to fly less anyway'. Well, yes that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old after you've spent the last 20 years flying all over the world and brandishing yourself as ' well travelled' and cultured. What about those of us in our early twenties like me who has been abroad four times in my whole life, not even to anywhere particularly exciting and I'm just about to finish university and was hoping to finally be able to travel a bit? It's ok to spout nonsense about flying less when you've been lucky and already had your experiences but I find it very hypocritical to want to deny others the same experiences that you were lucky enough to have.

my first plane trip was in my early twenties. I went abroad once before then, it was France but I found it quite exciting. Perhaps I was less jaded than the OP?

Fly less doesn't mean 'don't fly at all'. MN absolutes as always. And holidays abroad aren't produced by luck, they are produced by work to pay for them.

There are carbon footprint calculators online. My family did one and my two adult children and I combined had a lower carbon footprint than my sibling who goes on lots of holidays/buys stuff/drives.

And the weird thing about it is that she isn’t any happier and wouldn’t see herself as having a better quality of life. I feel we have just as much pleasure in life, and we’re not particularly trying to save the planet. We just happen not to do it.

I will add OP that for people in their fifties and even forties mostly didn’t go to university, so higher education (which most of you will never pay back the loans on) has been a wonderful opportunity open to many more in your generation. It is swings and roundabouts.

Yanbu op

Let’s not forget there are a lot of negatives to travelling less as well.

We should be flying less is aimed at everybody... it doesnt mean not flying, but doing it more sensibly, efficiently, and less trivially. No different than how we should conserve energy and adjust our driving habits.

The world is not your theme park

OP I’m struggling to read your posts because your petulant childish tone is drowning out any reason. Get your head out of your arse and stop with the ‘Boomer bashing‘

My parents have 3-4 holidays a year and travel all over the world. They havent been on a plane in almost 20years though. Less air travel does not mean no holidays.
I think the comments about flying less are mainly directed at business flights, flying around the world just for a meeting, and maybe the weekend city breaks. Obviously we are still allowed to fly abroad each year.

trains? Back in the day inter-railing round Europe was the thing.

and no we have not all spent ages travelling around the world. Expense for a start. My Mum has never flown.

everybody needs to cut back across the board. Some will be able to cut back more in one area than another.

@LEELULUMPKIN (You just put an '@' before someone's username to highlight BTW )

There is a bit of a difference between having kids and flying though, as

1. Flying or not is a continuous choice, rather than a one-off choice - someone who already has three kids can't choose to un-have them, but someone who has previously flown can control the flying they do in the future. Environmental concerns have become so much more highlighted in the past five-ten or so years that I think anyone with kids much older than that probably wouldn't have considered their choice from an environmental point of view.

2. Having offspring is the biological imperative of every living creature on the planet and it's extremely hard to get away from the desire to procreate, which we (like owls, rats, dandelions and limpets!) are programmed for. Every other aspect of existence (other than survival) is much more open to debate.

Having said all that, I absolutely agree that no-one should be holier-than-thou about their own choices and put other people down for their choices, not least because all that does is get people's backs up. I just wish people would all try their best without expecting absolute perfection.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

We are past the point of no return. Fly all you want and enjoy life. It is your children and grandchildren who will be dealing with the fall out.

This is such twaddle. OP, you sound like a whinging toddler.

Have flown 3 times in my entire life (40) and a couple of trips by sea before I realised it was worse, I would love to travel the world but that isn't possible. We know much more now about how at risk the planet is - ok, we knew all along but it seemed less urgent. It's rubbish but just because we fucked up doesn't mean you won't be responsible if you choose to carrying on flying and contribute to the planet being uninhabitable.

I think we need to think about the current situation, there is no need to fly anywhere right now. We will be able to fly where we choose in the future. I have neighbours with a house in Spain in which they spent many weeks last year, I am sure they are pining a bit but don't hear a peep out of them, they accept the status quo. In time we will be free to go where wherever we want. Spain haven't had it easy by any means, they'll be glad not to have anyone coming in from abroad, same as other countries - including here!

Is it so difficult to give something up for a while?

I'm one of those older people you're criticising.

I have never flown anywhere. Would have liked to go on holiday, but the opportunity never arose.

Flying isn't a need. It's a want - and one that has severe consequences for the environment.

I'm fine with people flying far, far less. The environment will benefit from it.

Flying is evolving even now due to Covid-19. You’ll see different types of planes from now on, newer, more efficient planes. Most airlines are retiring their 747s early during the lockdown and a lot have laid up their A380s.

55 and been on planes 6 times in my whole life . The last time I got a flight was in 1998 actually OP.

The World needs a breather from the damage done . Sorry that will upset your plans but as others have said what is wrong with ferries and trains ?

I agree flying isn’t a need - but it’s close to it for me. For education purposes, for growing, for experience. You are certainly less rounded if you haven’t travelled IMO.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

Thank you! I also wish we lived in an alternative world where everyone could fly as much as they wanted with no negative consequences. We used to go to airports for a day out when I was little (Pre 9/11!) and sit and have a picnic and watch the planes, so I definitely get the nostalgia!

“Fairness has nothing to do with ecological facts.”

This.

I sympathise with your frustration OP. Process your annoyance and then your decisions will be better ones

I just feel like my generation have got a bit of a shitty deal. I know every generation has had its problems and issues but we haven't benefited from house prices ( I may not ever be able to afford a house, although I am aware of high interest rates in the past!). I have done four years at university which has left me in about 60k of debt when previous generations benefited from free university education. Now we probably won't even be able see the world. I know I'm probably moaning but it just feels like I should be graduating with a bright future ahead me but it just doesn't seem all that bright anymore. I am aware though that I am lucky to have a university education at all.

Perhaps some of us cannot afford to go travelling for education purposes , growing and experience !!
How self centred.

There’s no reason why you can’t see the world - there are absolutely no restrictions in place to stop you.

I suspect my parents and grandparents felt they had a shitty deal. Ww2 and all that.

Sorry I don’t mean it to come across self centred. But I do think if possible travel is incredibly important.

No offence intended.