To be pissed off at people who constantly say we need to fly less?

[lockdowncockdown]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but here goes. Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by the people who constantly say 'well, we need to fly less anyway'. Well, yes that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old after you've spent the last 20 years flying all over the world and brandishing yourself as ' well travelled' and cultured. What about those of us in our early twenties like me who has been abroad four times in my whole life, not even to anywhere particularly exciting and I'm just about to finish university and was hoping to finally be able to travel a bit? It's ok to spout nonsense about flying less when you've been lucky and already had your experiences but I find it very hypocritical to want to deny others the same experiences that you were lucky enough to have.

Yes and no.

It’s undeniably true that we need to fly less.

But it’s irritating when a generation of people who grew up on two foreign holidays a year turn around and preach to the plebs about it. It’s understandable that people who didn’t have those opportunities growing up are less thrilled about curbing travel than those whose families had a second home in Tuscany.

I also it’s often the people with the highest social capital (second homes in Normandy which they can use, family friends all over the world), who are sniffiest about “package holidays” and their evils.

It’s all a bit one rule for us, one for you.

We do need to reduce overseas travel but preaching about how the great unwashed need to be satisfied with a weekend in Bognor is bound to rub people up the wrong way.

I'm mid twenties, not particularly well travelled. We absolutely need to fly less. You could still travel via trains and public transport etc. I'm not even saying never fly, but people don't need a long haul holiday every year or to fly to Paris for the weekend

They do have a point, and I say this as someone who flew around thirty times in one year.

Did anyone read a few years ago that you planes jet stream actually had a cooling affect on the earth or did I imagine it?

None of it matters

We still need to fly less

I'm in my fifties and have flown 8 times in my life

I believe in having an individual carbon allowance - it will still mean you can fly but much less occasionally

I'm an environmental scientist and it's true that 'we', as in all of us as a whole, need to fly less. But the public who go on holiday once or twice a year really aren't the problem (although all those flights do, obviously, add up). The REAL problem is business travellers who fly hundreds of thousands of miles every year, many of them for meetings that could be done just as easily via video, and people who own/fly huge numbers of miles in private jets. Those people are the ones who are really fucking things up, because their carbon footprint each year is roughly equivalent to some small nations.

So even knowing all I do about the environment and about carbon emissions I'm not going to lecture people who want to travel every now and again for leisure. Someone like the OP who's been abroad four times in her life is not the problem. Sure, we should all question our leisure travel and opt for less environmentally damaging forms of transport where possible (going to Paris or Amsterdam - take the train), but if you want to travel OP when/if we're ever allowed to again, go for it. I doubt we'll return to the era of cheap and frequent flights any time soon and I don't blame you for feeling pissed off about that. I would too if I was your age.

@sgampoiandtv While you're not wrong that having three children is generally much worse for the climate than flying, having fewer than three children shouldn't be a green card to do what you like the rest of the time.

Someone with three children who never flies/never drives/makes an effort in every aspect of their lives will have a much lower footprint than someone with two children who flies several times a year, drives a SUV and eats red meat daily!

Flying less doesn’t mean you can’t travel. Just do it in a different way

Most flying isn't necessarily.

Hopefully now people will give more thought as to whether their journey really is essential or not.

I imagine the increased price plus concerns about infection will make journeys that may previously been regarded as essential as actually not that necessary any more.

It will be very tough for the aviation industry but good for the environment.

I'm 60 and have been saying this for years. I've flown in planes maybe a dozen times in my life. Only three times abroad and only once long haul. Mass air travel is selfish indulgence by people from rich countries going to look at poor countries before they drown.

Essentially the younger generation are paying for a mess we haven't even caused

But you're throwing your rattle out the pram because you want to keep causing the same mess, even though you now have access to all the information about the destruction various things have on the environment.

Can you imagine what the next generation will be saying, seeing how selfish people continue to be, knowing what they/you are doing to the environment.

Thepeopleversuswork you have said what I was trying to articulate perfectly.

YABU

I'm a forty-something who could have flown regularly but didn't as there are other options as PP has said - train, ship, UK holidays (which can be amazing).

It's become the norm to fly alot but we'll find a new norm going forward.

Yep, mid fifties here too.
Last flew abroad in 1982.

We all need to rethink flying cheaply irrespective of how young or old we are.

You can go abroad without flying, take the euro tunnel, drive across Europe, take a cruise to Japan or America, flying isn't the only way to travel the globe.

If the doom monger climate change people are right then of course we need to fly less.

We absolutely need to fly less. However I don’t think the problem is people flying once or twice per year, it’s the frequent travellers - 15% of the population take 70% of the flights www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/jul/19/carbon-calculator-how-taking-one-flight-emits-as-much-as-many-people-do-in-a-year, we should be increasing prices incrementally per flight taken.

So what are you saying? That your generation should be supported in your choice to fly frequently and we all turn a blind eye to the resulting carbon emissions? I've been abroad the same number of times as you, OP and I'm in my late thirties. I do not begrudge other people's travel opportunities.

I don't think anyone should tell others how they should live their lives.

If you don't want to fly any more, don't. If you don't want to eat meat, don't. It doesn't mean that you get to tell others they shouldn't. Live and let live. If flights are available, people are entitled to get on them.

If the doom monger climate change people are right then of course we need to fly less.

What do you mean 'if'?

Neko, I am more reluctant to take a cruise than I am to fly. I believe they are also harmful to the environment and terrible for the environment in the areas they pull up in.

We do need to fly less. Yes, I'm "40/50 years old", and I've flown exactly 10 times in my whole life (5 return trips), none of them longer than 3 hours.

I know a bit what you mean. I’ve just got out of a shitty marriage to a controlling stinge bag, and I was just thinking “right, now I can do what I want, travel etc”.

But I guess they are saying fly less, not fly not at all.

Am 50 and have 3 foreign holidays a year normally
Have done since got my first job over 25 years ago
Will be a period of readjustment but hopefully lots of holidays in the future

It’s the celebs saying it when they are jetting off here there and everywhere when they don’t need to that backs me off.