To be pissed off at people who constantly say we need to fly less?

[lockdowncockdown]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but here goes. Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by the people who constantly say 'well, we need to fly less anyway'. Well, yes that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old after you've spent the last 20 years flying all over the world and brandishing yourself as ' well travelled' and cultured. What about those of us in our early twenties like me who has been abroad four times in my whole life, not even to anywhere particularly exciting and I'm just about to finish university and was hoping to finally be able to travel a bit? It's ok to spout nonsense about flying less when you've been lucky and already had your experiences but I find it very hypocritical to want to deny others the same experiences that you were lucky enough to have.

I agree that business travel is the worst though. A friend has a colleague who lives in Cornwall and has a job in London. He WFH 2 days a week and flies in from Newquay for the other two days, and stays overnight with his mum in Croydon.

One thing about this though is often the disparity between the price of a train ticket v a cheap flight. (As well as the time difference) ....although I guess that may well change.
It doesnt encourage people not to fly when train travel is comparatively so much more expensive. A friend went to Cornwall recently and costed the price between driving and going by train, and even for 1 person on their own it was more cost effective to drive.

How much less do ppl mean when they say that? Surely even once a year is quite a lot.

take a cruise to Japan or America, flying isn't the only way to travel the globe.

That sounds great until you realise that takes up more than your entire yearly annual leave allowance...

Even if people took a return flight once a year, that would be a huge improvement on what currently happens. Even better if people took a return flight every other year.

Also meant to say that you are wrong about the age generalisation though. I am 50 and my wanderlust grows stronger the older I get.

It's not just spring chickens who want to travel.

I'm early fifties and my DC have travelled the world way more than I have.

Fairness has nothing to do with ecological facts.

@LEELULUMPKIN I hate this hypocrisy bashing – if we only allow perfect people to suggest that things need changing, nobody is allowed to say that things need changing. And things do need to change! Not being perfect doesn't mean that you are never allowed an opinion on anything, especially when that opinion is based on scientific facts.

I do think people are missing the point - nobody is trying to stop holidays or people seeing the world.

They are asking Google etc to cut their flight consumption for their 100 thousand employees - not to stop Karen and Dave from going to Alicante.

But if we don't all change our approach there won't be much worth looking at on your travels.
Climate change is awful and affects us all. I think not being able to travel will be the least of our worries tbh.

How am I being entitled to want to have the same opportunities that the older generation have had?

Cheap flights are a very recent phenomenon. I'm in my mid-50's. When I was in my late teens/early 20's, flying was not affordable for most. I remember in my early 20's an affordable flight was introduced between Dublin and London. If you booked a month in advance, you could get a flight for £90. To put that in context, my monthly rent in a shared house at the time was £70.

OP, you need to go on Twitter. It's not the 40/ 50 year olds telling everyone to fly less, it's those in their 20s and early 30s.

Perhaps stop trying to add a "label" to age groups and consider that the message will be from people that fear for the planet rather than people you think may have flown more than you.

I've flown to holiday locations. I can count that number on one hand. Not been abroad for 20 years. As someone else said, go by ferry and travel by train! My OH went through Europe on train as he has a fear of flying and had a blast!

Also... I grew up with a hole in the ozone layer, acid rain, droughts and floods so perhaps get a ladder to help you get off your high horse and pick up the toys you've thrown from your pram.

EVERY generation has to try and clean up the mess from those before them. You are not the first generation to have to do this and you won't be the last.

I get equally pissed off at people who tell others how many children they’re allowed to have. These same people have had 1 or 2 children themselves, and seem to think their little darlings don’t add to the over population. If they’re that bothered then why are they having children? Surely if they choose not to “replace” themselves then they will be creating some space on the planet?

I was told that I am murdering the planet with flying by a now a former friend with 4 kids and SUV... 🤷🏻
Or told off for asking for non paper straw (yuck) because I am murdering animals and planet with plastic by a friend who arrived day before from 4 holiday of the year and these were to the other side of the planet...

There are imperfections, then there is pure hypocrisy.

I’m in my twenties and I long to travel too, so I see where you are coming from. It does feel unfair when we are being ‘encouraged’ to fly less by people who’ve already spent decades travelling the world (like the thread this week about holidaying in the UK).

That being said, it’s true that the way we live now just isn’t sustainable and something has to give. Actually, lots of things have to give. We need to fly less, drive less, eat less meat, produce and use less electronics and just generally chill the fuck out with this rabid consumerism that we’ve got going on.

The rate at which we consume the earths resources isn’t sustainable at the moment and it becomes even less sustainable when you take into account that there are developing countries that are going to need to increase their emissions to get a slice of the pie, and lift their populations out of poverty in the next decade.

So yes I think YABU even though it’s a bitter pill to swallow.

I don't think a once a year holiday flight is really the issue here tbh. I would imagine all the business flights going on with people flying weekly is adding more to the issue.

Cruises and train travel are all very well, but take a lot of time. Most families might get a two week break together, not really enough time to cruise to America and have a holiday. Plus all the luggage you are hauling about if you are traveling with a family on trains.

People are less likely to care about the world if they never get to experience any of the wonder of it.

Well people do need to fly less, they also need to have fewer kid, buy less crap, drive less. In fact all the things that have been positives to this corona virus (well apart from the fewer kids thing- but home schooling and financial insecurity might have made people think twice about adding to their brood). Now it’s been proven we can make the necessary changes very quickly when there’s an immediate threat

MrsBromeliad (sorry I don't know how to highlight!)

But it IS hypocritical and of course no one is perfect and we are all entitled to an opinion.

Surely if you have those opinions though they are values that you live by?

If saying that we all need to fly less whilst going on to add to the environmental devastation by having kids is hypocritical.

It's do as I say, not as I do

We also had an industrial revolution which most of us benefitted from, including using child labour, but that doesn't mean we should carry on polluting and use child labour just so that you dont miss out.

We also decided to seriously curb smoking to improve your health, so your benefitting from stuff that others didnt...

You win some, you lose some.

I’ll be flying again, not just yet, but as soon as this dies down big time I’m booking a long haul flight, probably 2021.
Not sorry.

Flying less doesn't mean never. You can still see the world. Go every other year instead of twice a year.

It’s really for your generation and the generation after you that we need to fly less. It doesn’t stop you travelling - you might just have to be a bit more creative! There are some awesome train journeys around the world.

My in laws travelled all around Europe by train in the 1960s. I did an amazing train journey across Vietnam (I admit, I did fly to get there). I don’t intend to fly unless necessary from the last couple of years. Since I had my son, it has hit home that I need to think of his future and the impact of climate change.

Why don’t you get online and start planning a round the world train trip? STA travel used to be good for that kind of thing. To be honest, I think an awesome train trip would be more exciting than sitting in an airport and waiting for flights. You get to see the amazing countrysides!

Even twice a year is nothing - from what I’ve read that’s not who this is aimed at.

'Scuse autocorrect doing anything but with "you're"

I'm guessing those who go on about "dirty stinky noisy jets" never witnessed aircraft such as the 707 and VC-10s that roared around in the 60s...

Aviation has objectively made massive strides in reducing emissions per sector.... (engine design, ATC and crew operating techniques and procedures).

That said it's obvious "we" are flying more and more - I'm going to leave it to those with the wisdom of Solomon and thick skins to decide where on a sliding scale of "bad" or "really bad" do the following reasons for travel fit.

Stag do's and hen do's ('cos it's not just a blokes "thing")
school trips,
Pre-Christmas shopping,
weekend breaks,
Two week family breaks,
Flying prior to getting an environmentally friendly cruise
business trips and
visiting elderly family.

Mrs I am always interested to hear from someone like you who does live life very differently. We're trying lots of little steps to live in a way that's better all round and often habits are hard to break. I don't think you sound extremist at all.

I absolutely accept we need to fly less I'm just sad about it. I'm such a saddo I get excited just being in a flippin airport