To be pissed off at people who constantly say we need to fly less?

[lockdowncockdown]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but here goes. Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by the people who constantly say 'well, we need to fly less anyway'. Well, yes that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old after you've spent the last 20 years flying all over the world and brandishing yourself as ' well travelled' and cultured. What about those of us in our early twenties like me who has been abroad four times in my whole life, not even to anywhere particularly exciting and I'm just about to finish university and was hoping to finally be able to travel a bit? It's ok to spout nonsense about flying less when you've been lucky and already had your experiences but I find it very hypocritical to want to deny others the same experiences that you were lucky enough to have.

Not all of Generation X got a great deal either OP , trust me on that one .

I have hardly flown and I'm mid 40s.
I flew to the Channel Islands in my 20s, and have been up a couple of times in light aircrafts. Does that mean I'm allowed to say it?

Essentially the younger generation are paying for a mess we haven't even caused and then are being preached to about needing to fly less to 'save the planet'
I've actually seen more the other way round. The younger generation on about how the "older generation have ruined it". If you're saying that then you need to be the ones who show how you think it should be done.

And after this I suspect people will fly less. Meetings that people would have flown to will be done electronically And maybe people will holiday in this country this summer and find it's not as terrible as they always thought it would be and not feel that they have to go abroad for it to be a holiday.

Fair enough @emz771.

I just think it would be great for all of us if it was reduced I am not saying we should never fly anywhere ever again but something has to give , in my opinion

Mass air travel is selfish indulgence by people from rich countries going to look at poor countries before they drown.

Or it could be people visiting their family abroad, as we do every year and were planning to do in Easter, but obviously couldn't.

All the people who have patiently explained upthread, that it's business flights which are the biggest issue, thank you.

YABU

What about if alternative fuels, newer fuel efficient planes, etc are used for flying, what about investing in making flying less environmentally impactful so we can still physically stay connected to the world. Flying will always be the quickest way to travel round the world, it won't be going away completely. Rather than not use it, why not change it for the better.

Get the train. You sound petulant.

I fly abroad 3 times a year and will continue to do so once travel is allowed again.
I do think businesses need to stop so much flying though, i know of long haul trips for a 1 day meeting, frequent short haul flights where the meeting could easily be done via skype, as lockdown has proven. I hope lockdown has taught businesses they don't need to fly for meetings

It's not fair OP but who knows what will happen. You could travel overland through europe to Asia. I've been lucky enough to travel loads in my time. I'd settle for a family trip abroad every other year I think.
It's people making multiple trips per year that needs to stop whether that's for business or pleasure.

How am I being entitled to want to have the same opportunities that the older generation have had? Essentially the younger generation are paying for a mess we haven't even caused and then are being preached to about needing to fly less to 'save the planet'

Can you not see the irony in berating older people for traveling and not taking into account the environment because you don't have the opportunity to do the same thing?

As people have said, flying a lot on international travel is a very very modern invention and yes one particular generation (those born from 1940s until recently ) have had the benefit of that. If you had been born in that era you would have taken the opportunity too, you have said as much. Older people were not selfish in an unusual way, they took advantage of the opportunities offered to them and weren't as worried about the consequences as they should have been. I don't believe that younger would have behaved any differently in the same situation

Unfortunately you are young in the end of that era so in that you are unlucky (if flying across the word is something you want to do) but you are lucky in other respects compared to many people in other parts of the world.

You are also younger than me and despite all the woe is me that many people seem to favour on here, I think you will have many many other opportunities that will be wondrous long after I have died so I am envious of that. Does that seem reasonable to you? of course not

I know this was written pre-Coronavirus but it shows that the word had not been 'getting worse' in recent history but has in fact been improving overall. www.bbc.com/future/article/20190111-seven-reasons-why-the-world-is-improving

Ok this virus has caused a crisis but this virus will pass, they all do and the young will almost all survive it.

The world was not getting worse before this virus and it won't after it either. Things will change and some things will be worse of course but overall I think things will be better for more people and you op will be part of that. I imagine people will still travel but in different ways , have faith that humans will solve this.

that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old
I wasn't aware that "the older generation* were saying this? I didn't notice how Greta Thunberg and her contemporaries had aged. It wasn't thousands of the older generation bunking off school in the name of the planet, was it. In our "older generations" we called that truancy.

I am 62 and I am fed up to the f**king back teeth of a younger generation whinging about what they have or haven't got, had or experienced, and what everyone else must or must not do. Stop whinging and acting all entitled. Whinging never changed anything. Those of us older people who "got stuff" had to work and fight for what we got. Who told you that you were entitled to what you want just because you want it?

Forget about what everyone thinks and do what you want - travel and enjoy yourself - stop letting other people’s opinion annoy you or influence what you do!

I think it's a great opportunity to allow whatever airlines to collapse and to change the licensing terms so that every flight route that is approved has to be genuinely carbon neutral.

That way we should make a slower and more sustainable return to normality with some incentives to encourage the development of things like electric planes

People can say what they want, why do you care?

I don't need to justify what I am doing, how many kids I chose to have and how many holidays I feel we need. It's nobody's business.

Take the message as "try to do your bit" and make the small changes or take the small steps you can.

A few airlines will disappear, air travel and holidays will get more expensive, holiday destinations will become less crowded and everybody is happy.

Well, I can understand that you are pissed off about it and no, it isn't fair. But life is not fair and the sooner you accept that, then the more content you will be. There will always be other people who have more and less that us, and there is no point complaining about "fairness". The key to a good life is to learn to be content with the hand you are dealt.

"I have done four years at university which has left me in about 60k of debt when previous generations benefited from free university education."
No, 'previous generations' didn't benefit from free university education. When I left school, only 5% of pupils went on to university. 5%. The rest of us got jobs. And the vast majority of us got jobs at the age of sixteen.

When you compare your life to the lives of past generations, don't assume that anything current was in place then, because it probably wasn't. Even house prices. Yes we could afford to buy houses, but those houses had outside toilets, one electricity socket per room and lead water pipes that had to be replaced pronto. The past often bears less resemblance to the present than I suspect you think.

I’m no climate change denier, and I agree we need to make some changes somewhere, but I wonder if most mumsnetters realise how many millions of people would be fucked if we all just stopped flying and travelling?

Pilots, flight attendants, airport staff & ground crew, caterers, cleaners, hotel staff, tour guides, taxi drivers & ubers, tourist attraction staff etc just to name a very select few.

And it’s all good and well to say “just drive or take a ferry or train from the luxury of the UK. I live in Australia. If I don’t fly I’ll never go abroad. I would literally take me a week just to drive to the other side of the country. I want to see the world.

When I was in Bali last year, we gave the rest of our Indonesian currency to our driver when he dropped us off at the airport on the last day. Can’t have been more than about $50aud, but he was so happy he started crying. I can’t even imagine how developing countries that rely on tourists are coping right. I imagine a vast majority of them will literally be starving.

We need tourism.

I’m not sure why you think that older people were able to fly frequently in the past. Until recently, air travel was more affordable than thirty years ago and opportunities for travel to distant places more possible with airline routes.

Thirty years ago, it was more expensive comparatively and there were fewer routes. I’ve flown about half a dozen times and not at all for the last fifteen years.

You can travel, just in different ways. Many things will be different in the future. Travel is just one of thrm.

I agree OP your generation has had the shitty end of the deal with regard to house prices, costs of education and job opportunities. However - we do need to fly less! Tbh though the problem is not much longed-for trips to widen ones cultural understanding which are dreamed of and saved up for over many years/months. The problem is corporations sending several executives out on planes per month to “press the flesh” and sort out god know what involving hotel stays/corporate entertainment/restaurants/whatever. I am sorry to have to make a sweeping generalisation but these trips seem to be 99% tailored to the needs and preferences of men and could be easily sorted out over zoom or with a few diplomatically worded emails. Businesses imo should be restricted and given an allowance of flights per year. I’m not sure there’s a need to restrict holidays or travelling for pleasure/visiting family/broadening horizons as the cost helps prohibit these to a degree. I’m also not sure there will the same appetite after lockdown anyway!

I just feel like my generation have got a bit of a shitty deal

Or you could look at it from the other angle. You have lots of freedom that previous generations never had. Women can vote, work full-time and are no longer tied to the kitchen. Sexuality is much more accepted. You can marry someone of your own sex. There's support in place for single parents and people no longer live in slums with no running water or inside toilets when they lose their jobs like they often did in the fifties and sixties.

We have access to free education up until 18 years of age. We have free healthcare at the point of use. You're not going to go bankrupt because you get diagnosed with cancer and have to pay thousands of pounds towards your treatment. We have heated housing, running water, unlimited access to the internet. Video calls, mobile phones, cars.

At the end of the day even if flying was banned tomorrow you could still go abroad - the car ferry or Eurostar gets you to mainland Europe in a matter of hours, and from there you can travel all over Europe and Asia.

Life can't stay the same way forever and if you keep looking at the past with rose-tinted glasses, you're never going to enjoy the present and future.

Some of us didnt have the education opportunities you currently have. Would you mind paying a bit more tax to let us enjoy those same opportunities? Why should I suffer just because I was born ahead of you?
Do you fancy doing a spot of coal mining whilst you're at it?

Sorry posted too soon

@MrsBromeliad I hope that has worked and THANK YOU!

I enjoyed reading your very well thought out and considered reply.

Dandelions the bloody bane of my life at the moment, If I could shove every one of them on a plane I would happily do it! :)

That was my whole point and obviously not put as well as you, it's the holier than thou attitude of many, that annoys me.

None of us are perfect and each and everyone of us need to do more

I would ban all commercial flights. Possibly giving everyone 25 flying hours for life time. Need to go by land or sea.
Sorry but far too many people on planet earth.
The answer to educate women around the world. Make childrens lives safer in third world countries and then birth rate would drop to below 2 per couple.

Oh, and do you fancy a trip to Europe to fight a world war ... dont want you missing out on all the benefits the older generation enjoyed

YABU. Life changes all the time and every generation has pluses and minuses. If you want to destroy the planet by ignoring the fact that flying is causing huge problems, then fine but I can't agree that you are being hard done by.